Hi to everyone out-there!

I was reading the thread about cold start idle problems and stumbled across a phrase of Adrian which is rather confusing (at least for me) he quoted:

Have you used injector cleaner recently. If you have, bad idea. This can gum up the injectors. If the injectors do not open properly you will get similar results, (i.e. idle problems)
Ciao,
Adrian

On this borad we had a few threads concerning valve cleaner additives and injector cleaner additives, and everybody, more or less, agreed that those liquid cleaners are a smart thing and that they should be used from time to time.

So the question is quite simple. Should we use them or not?

Any response will be greatly appreciated

Bye Bye THOMAS

 

Dear Thomas,
This is a personal thing. I do not tell people what to do, just advise them. You can read all the glossy brochures and all the magazine articles but if you get to speak to the engine design people, they all cringe when you mention injector cleaners. Not just Porsche injectors either. There are also so many products out there that it is hard to say which is good bad or indifferent. I do not try, I just do not use them.
I tell you how I clean my injectors. Remove them and have them cleaned properly and professionally. However that is my way. I can tell you from experience though, which dates back quite a while than detergents added to fuel do not always work to your advantage.
I have helped quite a few people over the years with this problem, again not just on Porsches. When we diagnose the injectors are gummed up they say, "oh I used an injector cleaner in the fuel only a month ago".
Sorry for all the injector cleaner salespeople out there but I do not recommend their use,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

PS: I do not recommend the use of any additives you can purchase off the shelf for anything that goes through the engine or any other system with moving parts and "gaskets".

 

Hi Thomas,

FWIW,

Ive got my '89 C4 now for about 8 months now. The former owner drove the car only 6 months a year. During several weeks I had iddle/hunting/stalling problems when I had to stop for crossovers or redlights.

First I had my dist. caps changed and the iddle valve cleaned. Although the car drove little better they still kept appearing.

I used the complete STP engine cleaner and must say I am totally freed of those probs. They recommend it to use it every 6000 km, I used two cans to be honest as I felt lots improvement with one but 2 weeks later the engine acted weird again. The second finished the work.

Guess my probs were related to a combination of several probs. Overall I am convinced it was the cleaner that put the end to it.

The STP cleaner costed me about 30,00 CHF/can. I am not related to STP at all. I heard lots good of Techron too but I could not find it here in Europe/Belgium.

I think one should not overdo the use of cleaners but my car never had such a treatment for about 13 years so I guess it was needed.

All the best,

WSP964

By the way, the Jamaican referee stole the victory from the Belgium soccer team over Brasil.

 

Thomas,

Porsche did issue a service bulletin a number of years ago recommending Chevron's Techron to clean the fuel injector system. Their instructions were: on a near empty tank, add the Techron (they make two sizes, the larger size works for 20 gallon gas tanks), then fill with gas. Run tank to half full, then fill up again, and run to near empty. I do this once a year, and tend to do it just before I change the oil, as Techron affects the oil (they warn you on the bottle not to use, as I recall, more than two treatments between oil changes - of course I'd bet that assumes your typical 5 qt oil system).

 

Dear Bill,
I hate to be a pain but do you have a copy of this TSB or SB. I have searched my data and cannot find it. Maybe it was issued in conjunction with models that I have not subscribed to. I have found this before. I would also suspect that this is a PCNA, USA only approval but I could not be sure,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

 

Gentlemen!

Your not pulling on the same string. Adrian says it's sc..t, Bill and WSP964 are saying it's cool.

I talked about this once with my Posrche Specialist, and he told me that it cannot harm the engine to use some of this stuff from time to time, he quoted about once to twice (not more) a year if you run between 6-10 Thousand km per year. On his advice I used it also (valve cleaner, but IMHO I'm quite sure that it's about the same stuff as the injector cleaner) and it hadn'done any bad, even if I cannot swear that it have done any good either.

I quite agree with Adrian quoting that the allmighty-everything-miraculous-super-stuff-fluids are sort of star dust for the customer who sees those miracle fluids on the shelf of his motor-market. Thus I'll probably use this stuff again but will stuck to premium products like STP or the ones from a serious Petroleum company anyway!

So long Gentlemen and thank you for the inputs

Cheers THOMAS

 

[quote]<strong>do you have a copy of this TSB or SB</strong><hr></blockquote>

Adrian,

I'll have to go find it, but will get back with it.

 

Thanks Bill. I had the same trouble long ago getting the 18 inch wheel one.

Thomas. You know if we all agreed on everything there would be no need for these boards. I can assure you I can find three opinions on any subject from 2 people. We are not supposed to pull on the same string. Using additives in fuel and oil systems is a subject of constant debate. I will not use additives in my 911. Any Australian who can remember back to the 1980s and Toyota and Nissan cancelling warranties for the use of additives in oil and fuel will know what I mean. I clean my injectors with fuel. Clean fuel in a proper cleaning machine. I do this every 40,000km. I can honestly say I have never used injector cleaners in my fuel and never had any problems. Many more can quite honestly say the opposite.
The people I end up helping do not normally post to the board but email me privately when they have had problems. That is the way of things.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

 

Adrian!

Ok you convinced me not to use those magic fluids anymore!
I'll stay with your advice and clean the injectors the normal way (pulling them out and cleaning them by flushing with gas). In the end I don't want to be the kind of guy mailing outside the board and knocking on uncle Adrian's door for help.

Anyway thanks for the advices

regards THOMAS

 

Dear Thomas,
This bulletin board would account for about 25% of the help that I offer. The rennlist emails another 25% and private contact 50%. Now these figures do vary through the year. Winter is busier for me generally but summer seems to bring out the C4 problems because the C4s are being used more often, especially in the USA.
I do not mind how people use what I have to offer. If I can help I will. Advice is given freely and without obligation. Good decision on the injectors though, (just kidding guys)
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4