Need some guru help/advice
02-16-2003 | 11:48 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,639
Likes: 2
From: Just North of "Big D"
Need some guru help/advice
Guys, I finally have the SoK blower motor in my '90 & it's running great BUT I need some idle setting advice. As backround, here's what I have so far. This is a Superchargers of Knoxville motor running at 8 psi with a full width intercooler. I am using the EFI engine management system piggy backed off a custom chipped DME. I have currently got the idle set at 1000 with the Idle Air Valve(IAV) set at the 98% level (quickest reacting) setting through the EFI programmer. I have the throttle plate set completely closed & am relying on the IAV bypass for all idle functions. This seems to work well with the exception of cold idle for the first couple of minutes which is non existent. OK, here's the question, the new Panorama has an article about the early Motronic systems & it sounds very similar to the 964 configuration as far as idle components are concerned. It's says to bypass the IAV & set your initial idle with the throttle plate if I am reading it right. Am I better off using that method & utilizing the IAV only for idle offset in cold start & A/C use situations or do I have it set correctly now with the throttle plate completely closed at idle & relying on the IAV for all idle air flow? Sorry for the lengthy message. Thanks!
02-18-2003 | 03:35 AM
#2
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 9
From: Virginia Beach, Va.
Jay, I've worked with the same setup on another C2...your final suggestion is what I would do. 
Set your warm idle via the throttle plate, it should never be completely closed, and compensate for AC and coldstart/warmup idle using your program mapping. I believe you have 8, or is it 16 different settings you can make with that setup??
...It's been awhile.
How does that car scoooot along now?? I was never satisfied with how my friend's car ran...it was "moody". <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />
Set your warm idle via the throttle plate, it should never be completely closed, and compensate for AC and coldstart/warmup idle using your program mapping. I believe you have 8, or is it 16 different settings you can make with that setup??
...It's been awhile.
How does that car scoooot along now?? I was never satisfied with how my friend's car ran...it was "moody". <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />
02-18-2003 | 11:29 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,639
Likes: 2
From: Just North of "Big D"
Jeff,
Thanks! That's what I am going to try.
The car is running great. Not quite as eventful as my turbo was since the power is there all the time. You realize its FAST by the speed at which the speedo needle winds up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> . Things start going by real quick. I really like it on the highway. 5th is all you need. All you have to do is tip into the boost & your gone.
Jay
Thanks! That's what I am going to try.
The car is running great. Not quite as eventful as my turbo was since the power is there all the time. You realize its FAST by the speed at which the speedo needle winds up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> . Things start going by real quick. I really like it on the highway. 5th is all you need. All you have to do is tip into the boost & your gone.
Jay
02-19-2003 | 06:14 AM
#4
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 4
From: Leeds, where I have run into this many lamp
Jay
any details of the SoK setup?? (I take it this is Superchargers of Knoxville??)
What type of s/c do they use.? What do you do for the extra fuel demand?? How have you re-programmed the fuel & timing?
Pics??
any details of the SoK setup?? (I take it this is Superchargers of Knoxville??)
What type of s/c do they use.? What do you do for the extra fuel demand?? How have you re-programmed the fuel & timing?
Pics??
02-19-2003 | 07:42 AM
#5
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 9
From: Virginia Beach, Va.
John, for the 3.6 setup, they use a Whipple, now called an "Autorotor" supercharger, it is a HIGHLY efficient screw-type supercharger, something like 70-%80 efficient...am I correct on that Jay??
Most superchargers are around the %40 range.
John, some people go to larger injectors or change the duty cycle to increase the frequency of fuel spray for more volume, this is also coupled by a chip reprogram and an aftermarket mass flow setup, as the one Jay has is far and above what SoK USED to sell anyway...Jay, this was YOUR decision to add the piggyback setup - correct??
That's why Jay has NO LAG!!
Jay, I know what you mean about how uneventful the power is as it's always there...aint that a bi___??
I had a 3.0L SC setup with a Paxton SN-95 kit from SoK for years, once I broke my third set of pistons.
I eventually put the kit on the market, sold REAL quick!
...I gave plenty of advice to the next owner to NOT upgrade cams, boost level or change pulleys.
If I had stayed within the guidelines of SoK, first, my SC would've been BORING...but second, I would've had a reliable setup. <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />
Most superchargers are around the %40 range.
John, some people go to larger injectors or change the duty cycle to increase the frequency of fuel spray for more volume, this is also coupled by a chip reprogram and an aftermarket mass flow setup, as the one Jay has is far and above what SoK USED to sell anyway...Jay, this was YOUR decision to add the piggyback setup - correct??
That's why Jay has NO LAG!!
Jay, I know what you mean about how uneventful the power is as it's always there...aint that a bi___??
I had a 3.0L SC setup with a Paxton SN-95 kit from SoK for years, once I broke my third set of pistons.
I eventually put the kit on the market, sold REAL quick!
...I gave plenty of advice to the next owner to NOT upgrade cams, boost level or change pulleys.
If I had stayed within the guidelines of SoK, first, my SC would've been BORING...but second, I would've had a reliable setup. <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />
02-20-2003 | 02:35 AM
#7
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 9
From: Virginia Beach, Va.
John, SoK does indeed sell a kit, as does TPC (TurboPerformancenter) in Maryland.
I don't know of a website for either outfit, and I have looked as well! <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />
I have my opinions on performing this modification to a C2 or any Porsche motor, although some have had success with it, including me...but I LOVE to tinker and wound up blowing my engine up a few times...MAN, it felt good while it lasted! <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />
I also have my opinions as to what manufacturer/supplier to use, regarding SoK -or- TPC.
...BOTH seem to have customer support issues, but one is the CLEAR choice to use.
Ya know, my personal email is just a click away! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
I don't know of a website for either outfit, and I have looked as well! <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />
I have my opinions on performing this modification to a C2 or any Porsche motor, although some have had success with it, including me...but I LOVE to tinker and wound up blowing my engine up a few times...MAN, it felt good while it lasted! <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />
I also have my opinions as to what manufacturer/supplier to use, regarding SoK -or- TPC.
...BOTH seem to have customer support issues, but one is the CLEAR choice to use.
Ya know, my personal email is just a click away! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
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02-21-2003 | 12:11 AM
#8
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,639
Likes: 2
From: Just North of "Big D"
John,
Jeff is right. The big problem with these conversions is that people are never satisified & have a tendency to get carried away. As a guy who has been down the "you can never have enough" path with a 930, this time I am keeping it reasonable. The only reason I even did this was a friend of mine had this motor in his RSA for 28k miles. He was moving to CA & knew he would never pass emissions so he was going to sell his car. I suggested that we swap motors since mine was stock & here we are. He gets to keep his RSA & is sunning his lucky butt in CA as we speak & I'm freezing mine off in Texas with MORE POWER <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" /> . Plus my car was a "sheep in wolf's clothing". It's a turbo 3.6 look-a-like & needed more power to go with the muscular body. I have attached a couple of pics of the car & motor. <img src="http://members.rennlist.com/walker4953/DS%20sized.jpg" alt=" - " /> <img src="http://members.rennlist.com/walker4953/Blower%20motor2.jpg" alt=" - " /> The motor is pretty sorted & has spent some time on the track. I like the fact that it has 28,000 uneventful miles under it's belt. It's only running 8 PSI, has been overbuilt with 9.5/1 compression & Raceware everything, has custom ground cams for this setup, has a massive full width intercooler & a 7th injector ala the turbo guys for additional fueling. Plus the EFI piggyback set up allows you to adjust everything. Here's EFIs site:
<a href="http://www.efisystems.com/pms.htm" target="_blank">http://www.efisystems.com/pms.htm</a>
They make a 3.6 box also. The manual for it is shown under the manuals section on the website. I wouldn't do this set up without it. If you don't want to go into your motor, the TPC rig sounds like the way to go & should be fairly harmless at 4 PSI. Here's there site:
<a href="http://www.turboperformance.com/" target="_blank">http://www.turboperformance.com/</a>
Good luck in your quest & drop me a line anytime <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
Jeff is right. The big problem with these conversions is that people are never satisified & have a tendency to get carried away. As a guy who has been down the "you can never have enough" path with a 930, this time I am keeping it reasonable. The only reason I even did this was a friend of mine had this motor in his RSA for 28k miles. He was moving to CA & knew he would never pass emissions so he was going to sell his car. I suggested that we swap motors since mine was stock & here we are. He gets to keep his RSA & is sunning his lucky butt in CA as we speak & I'm freezing mine off in Texas with MORE POWER <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" /> . Plus my car was a "sheep in wolf's clothing". It's a turbo 3.6 look-a-like & needed more power to go with the muscular body. I have attached a couple of pics of the car & motor. <img src="http://members.rennlist.com/walker4953/DS%20sized.jpg" alt=" - " /> <img src="http://members.rennlist.com/walker4953/Blower%20motor2.jpg" alt=" - " /> The motor is pretty sorted & has spent some time on the track. I like the fact that it has 28,000 uneventful miles under it's belt. It's only running 8 PSI, has been overbuilt with 9.5/1 compression & Raceware everything, has custom ground cams for this setup, has a massive full width intercooler & a 7th injector ala the turbo guys for additional fueling. Plus the EFI piggyback set up allows you to adjust everything. Here's EFIs site:
<a href="http://www.efisystems.com/pms.htm" target="_blank">http://www.efisystems.com/pms.htm</a>
They make a 3.6 box also. The manual for it is shown under the manuals section on the website. I wouldn't do this set up without it. If you don't want to go into your motor, the TPC rig sounds like the way to go & should be fairly harmless at 4 PSI. Here's there site:
<a href="http://www.turboperformance.com/" target="_blank">http://www.turboperformance.com/</a>
Good luck in your quest & drop me a line anytime <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />