DaveK

I know Christer has, but I think it was quite unreasonable of him to do this when he was changing everything else on the car at the same time.

Has anyone taken a relatively stock 964, had Motec fitted and felt the difference?

Dunasso

I thought that the MOTEC system was a racing applicaton not street. I think that there is another system that is more suitable for the street use but I can,t remember the name. Sorry?

DaveK

By Motec, I mean the ECU. If you replace the DME with Motec, apparently you get lots more power (up to 320 bhp).

I've never heard before that it's racing application - my understanding was that if it's mapped properly it should still be a smooth daily driver - just with more power.

I know you need the newer throttle body, and a 7th injector - but I was including that as part of the Motec setup.

Just wondered if anyone has tried it without other major mods.

tonytaylor

You don't "need" a new throttle body but 9Ms conversion is based on the RS intake. You don't have a 7th injector but 6 larger injectors.

For the standard car a rechip is better value IMO.

DaveK

Do you really think a rechip makes much difference?

I had one by JZM and can't really tell any difference at all. And I'm certainly not getting the kind of power that 9M quote for Motec.

Computamedic

Dave,

I can't imagine a re-chip (by anybody) is going to hope to come close to the power increases achieved by fitting a Motec ECU - but I'd also argue against the "no effect" of a re-chip.

I recently had mine done by Andrew Sweetenham at ProMAX Motorsport - and for £149 it made a HUGE difference. Mostly in pure tractability at low speed athough there is definitely more top end too!! The program is designed to take advantage of 98 octane fuel (Optimax etc.) and the availability of free flow exhaust and air filter and I would recommend it as a cost effective improvement to anybody with a 964.

If you want more information on the Motec side I'd recommend you have a heart-to-heart with Colin Belton - he's the man with all the answers on THAT one.

Regards


Dave

DaveK

I have talked to Colin about it before, a couple of years ago. It does all sound very impressive - but I'd be more tempted if I knew someone who had done it on a reasonably stock car.

tonytaylor

Best to speak to 9M about this but from my interpretations of discusions re: Motec and rechips.
320+bhp available from RS variants but Rs variants typically produce 10bhp more than standard cars throughout rev range due to "blueprinting". RS owners claim more, I believe its less, you beleive what you will .
Stock cars have all made more than 310bhp AFAIK.
You will need the Motec package, cup pipe, plastic manifold and single throttle body ??£4.5k??
Rolling road rechip with cup pie,plastic manifold , single throttle body expect 285bhp ??£1.5K??
The max bhp you should expect with the standard injectors is c300bhp. MAF equipped cars typicaly, if done right, produce this level so perhaps the injectors first and the VAF secondly is limiting. Motec doesn't use the VAF either but with larger injectors produces more power than MAF equipped cars.

tonytaylor

Incidently there is an RS-athon at Oulton Park on 5th March and I believe 9M will be there, as will several Motec equipped cars. You could probably blag some PAX rides and find out if it works for yourself. Bring brown trousers

Christer

Dave, as I said to you on the phone - I am sure 9M would do the work based on some sort of guarantee that a certain level of power would be attained. I can't see Colin telling you that 'oh well you got another 10hp for your cash so thats it'.....I am not sure how useful the RS ride might be...as that car is also 200kgs+ lighter than your car...it would be difficult to relate it to your car I would think.....just speak to Colin and see what he says. I don't think there is anyone on Rennlist with a C4 with 9M Motec conversion only....maybe Colin knows?

Geoffrey

I've done both chipping and MoTeC in various Porsches and here is my opinion. Fundamentally, a stock ECU and a MoTeC ECU function similarly, with the exception of the factory ECU having the ability to do Knock management and using an old method of air flow metering. There are really 2 issues here; first the issue becomes being able to tune in real time on a dyno to obtain maximum power from steady state timing changes, something that cannot be done with the factory ECU due to the lack of availability of software. Second is that the factory ECU uses an air measurement system (air flow meter) technology which was 15+ years old at the time. Because of its design it creates a significant air restriction compared with a pressure sensing or Alpha-N system like you would install with the MoTeC. So, with MoTeC or any other aftermarket ECU, you can not only tune in real time, you can take advantage of airflow improvements from removal or changing of bolt on parts (intake/exhaust). And if you really wanted to, you could install a 96- varioram intake and use the aftermarket ECU to control the chamber valves, so you aren't limited by what comes on your vehicle.

As a point of reference, I have a 924S which I use for teaching the EFI Univeristy classes which has both the factory ECU and an Autronics ECU (MoTeC basically) and can be switched between both of them. When running with the Autronics ECU only, it does run through the AFM and air box although it isn't used to supply the ECU with any signal. The result on 87 octane fuel is about 15% from only fuel and ignition timing adjustments. Theoritically, you could burn a chip to with the same timing and fuel and produce similar power. If you removed the AFM you might get another 5% or so and tuning timing for 93 octane fuel would get you another 2-4 degrees of timing and some additional power.

I would also take any opportunity to talk with Colin at 9M. In my opinion, he is one shop that has the ability to provide a well tuned MoTeC system and you should feel confident about the end result.

AJKOK1

I can't provide any practical feedback on Motec, but Colin at 9m did do a chip change / remap on my 964 and the difference was very, very noticeable. I'm running at + - 285 bhp, which i figure is a healthy increase over a standard C2, ( i guess my de-cat and exhaust helps a bit). Nonetheless they were really helpful and I would agree with the feedback below....call him and he will certainly be able to give you an honest view of the pro's and con's of Remap vs. Motec.

Al.

tonytaylor

FWIW,
Geoff Everett ex at AMD did a live re-map on my C2 factory ECU. Wayne Schofield at Chipwizards also offers live re-maps, as does 9M.
The factory VAF meter would apear to be restrictive and as above and in my previous post Motec does away with this restriction. However the use of a MAF will also reduce this restriction - but at extra cost.
Having said the factory ECU can be custom written for individual cars and the VAF meter can be eliminated its probably worth going the Motec route at this level of investment as it is easier to live write and fine tune, especially to take advantage of futher changes - which in the 9M package means larger injectors, and it's a more powerful an ECU and it removes the need for a MAF/VAF. Downside is loss of anti-knock/safety modes.
For similar money you can have a supercharger which would be my choice for a road C4.

kris

Tony,
Can you elaborate this a bit for me?
Tx

tonytaylor

9M will fit the TPC supercharger ( there's a quite a few posts in the archives if you do a search, especially 993 forum). This is a bolt on ( and bolt off if you want to return to standard,eg when selling the car) upgrade that produces more power than Motec alone. It also produces significantly more torque through out the rev range and hence more power low and mid range revs.

Traction is rarely an issue with a C2, especially on track. Similarly track cars are more about top end power with close gears so low and mid range power is not as critical. C2 are also lighter and have less transmission losses so the relatively low power low revs is less of a problem than a C4. A supercharger suits a road car with wider gear spaces because of the power through the rev range, especially at big speed in tall gears.. The torque also allows the C4 to play the traction advantage card.