Long term track abuse & the 964
08-21-2002, 12:25 AM
#16
Addict
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Not to end the discussion, but in summary it appears the "abuse" from track events is not 964-specific. Nor is a 964 susceptible to greater wear due to any of its design elements or specifications. That's been my gut feeling all along.
If you track a car, it's going to be hard on it regardless of make or model. However, by following some of your great suggestions regarding brake management and performance upgrades, it seems I can take my fun to an even higher level. Time for me to find a new mechanic.
Thanks all for your contributions. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
If you track a car, it's going to be hard on it regardless of make or model. However, by following some of your great suggestions regarding brake management and performance upgrades, it seems I can take my fun to an even higher level. Time for me to find a new mechanic.
Thanks all for your contributions. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
08-21-2002, 02:26 AM
#17
Technical Specialist
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Lifetime Member
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[quote]<strong>I was wondering if you could expand, Bill, on the Seine Systems titanium brake shields? Also, I've been using ATE Super Blue DOT 4. Would this be comparable to ATE Type 200?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Keeping our brakes cool is a pain. One of several things we can do is to slow heat movement to the brake fluid, which causes air bubbles, which causes a "soft" pedal. If you look at the Seine Systems web site (www.seinesystems.com), they have some stats on how titanium doesn't transfer heat as well as steel. So, the thought is to put a titanium plate between the pad and the brake caliper pistons, to slow movement of heat through the caliper pistons into the brake fluid. That, coupled with air ducts routing air towards the rotor, ATE Typ 200 (same as super blue, as already mentioned), not only a cool down lap after a track session but additional loop or two around the paddock, and not braking to a stop when parking in the paddock after a track session (brake to a near stop with car in 1st gear, turn engine off, and let clutch out to finally stop).
Of course one can upgrade calipers and rotors....
Keeping our brakes cool is a pain. One of several things we can do is to slow heat movement to the brake fluid, which causes air bubbles, which causes a "soft" pedal. If you look at the Seine Systems web site (www.seinesystems.com), they have some stats on how titanium doesn't transfer heat as well as steel. So, the thought is to put a titanium plate between the pad and the brake caliper pistons, to slow movement of heat through the caliper pistons into the brake fluid. That, coupled with air ducts routing air towards the rotor, ATE Typ 200 (same as super blue, as already mentioned), not only a cool down lap after a track session but additional loop or two around the paddock, and not braking to a stop when parking in the paddock after a track session (brake to a near stop with car in 1st gear, turn engine off, and let clutch out to finally stop).
Of course one can upgrade calipers and rotors....
08-21-2002, 05:18 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
What difference would it make to not use the brakes to stop? The pads are still touching the rotors.
If a titanium plate is effective, a plate insulated with ceramic should be a lot better. Somebody should make a pad with the insulation built in.
If a titanium plate is effective, a plate insulated with ceramic should be a lot better. Somebody should make a pad with the insulation built in.
08-21-2002, 06:50 AM
#19
Race Car
YES, Irishdriver...I'm jealous! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> - I'd love to spend a month on the other side of the pond...what fun those tracks must be!! 
As for Track Junkie, I resemble that remark.
I abuse the hell out of my 964, I must say...but on the other hand, I treat it well with proper maintenance and upkeep, sometimes too much.
I hit the curbing, threshold brake, bounce off the rev-limiter and use sticky tires too. Sure, all those things take a toll on any car...but I wouldn't trade longevity of components/structure of vehicle with driving aggressively for one second.
I bought my 964 with the intended purpose of having a "dual purpose" car...and LOVE it!
I've gone through some rotors and brake pads, tires too - but everytime I changeout such items, I look around at the shockmounts, chassis connections, swaybar mounts, etc.
Basically, I "self tech" my car everytime I change wheels/brake components...which is VERY often. I do 12-14 events a year and don't plan on slowing down anytime soon.
I've had my 964 for 14 months now and it's going strong. The only thing I forsee is possibly some valve guide replacement as I drive it hard and am about to crossover the 70K mark.
When it is evident that I'll need some internal "massaging" of the engine components, I plan on taking the whole engine down and doing it all...after all, I have the dreaded cylinder head leakage issue.
Bill has some VERY good suggestions, the DAS bar is a quality component, something I have considered for a long time in lieu of installing a full cage...but my plans may just involve a full cage as I am considering going into racing full bore.
As for brakes, well, it was inevitable that I would wind up with a Big Red upgrade...after all, I figured out that in one year it will more than pay for itself...after three events, it looks like that prediction is going to ring true...I was going through a set of pads a weekend, and a set of front rotors every 3-4 weekends.
As for Track Junkie, I resemble that remark.
I abuse the hell out of my 964, I must say...but on the other hand, I treat it well with proper maintenance and upkeep, sometimes too much.
I hit the curbing, threshold brake, bounce off the rev-limiter and use sticky tires too. Sure, all those things take a toll on any car...but I wouldn't trade longevity of components/structure of vehicle with driving aggressively for one second.
I bought my 964 with the intended purpose of having a "dual purpose" car...and LOVE it!
I've gone through some rotors and brake pads, tires too - but everytime I changeout such items, I look around at the shockmounts, chassis connections, swaybar mounts, etc.
Basically, I "self tech" my car everytime I change wheels/brake components...which is VERY often. I do 12-14 events a year and don't plan on slowing down anytime soon.
I've had my 964 for 14 months now and it's going strong. The only thing I forsee is possibly some valve guide replacement as I drive it hard and am about to crossover the 70K mark.
When it is evident that I'll need some internal "massaging" of the engine components, I plan on taking the whole engine down and doing it all...after all, I have the dreaded cylinder head leakage issue.
Bill has some VERY good suggestions, the DAS bar is a quality component, something I have considered for a long time in lieu of installing a full cage...but my plans may just involve a full cage as I am considering going into racing full bore.
As for brakes, well, it was inevitable that I would wind up with a Big Red upgrade...after all, I figured out that in one year it will more than pay for itself...after three events, it looks like that prediction is going to ring true...I was going through a set of pads a weekend, and a set of front rotors every 3-4 weekends.
08-21-2002, 12:16 PM
#20
Addict
Rennlist Member
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I have a single purpose car and that is track events. It is still titled and registered for the street, but I only drive it to the occasional club event or I take turns taking my sons to school (one is 6 and the other 8 years old, so they get a big kick out of dad dropping them off in the race car).
I guess it's safe to say that I get my money's worth out of the C2. It has had over 200 track days in the past 6 years to include over 30 PCA Club Races. I am also very religious about proper maintenance and won't hesitate to replace any part that seems to be wearing prematurely. With that said, the chassis is holding up very well. Even with solid motor mounts and an RSR suspension, there are no cracks or distortions that my shop has noticed. I say drive it and enjoy it.
I guess it's safe to say that I get my money's worth out of the C2. It has had over 200 track days in the past 6 years to include over 30 PCA Club Races. I am also very religious about proper maintenance and won't hesitate to replace any part that seems to be wearing prematurely. With that said, the chassis is holding up very well. Even with solid motor mounts and an RSR suspension, there are no cracks or distortions that my shop has noticed. I say drive it and enjoy it.
