BarryG

Ok....something I have been struggling with. After driving my 1978 sc for the last 2 years, and then driving the 1990 C4 I just got, I have noticed there is a huge difference between them. Most 911's that I have ever driven all felt similar from a handling and pure driving feel standpoint. The C4 feels 180 degrees different. Even though it has more hp it does not seem to have the same raw power as the '78. Handling I expect to be different because of the all wheel drive. I have the '90 in the shop right now so my mechanic can give it the once over...but does anyone have any thoughts on this? Hopefully it just needs the TLC that Forry the mechanic can give.

joey bagadonuts

If raw's what you want, there are two remedies:

* Drill the airbox and insert K&N filter

* Replace the primary muffler with a bypass pipe

Pull down the top and let her rip!

marc 1xx1

Barry:

I have a 78 SC Targa that is a very competitive in Autocross and holds its own at DE events as well. This season I upgraded to an RSA. I still have the Targa too!

I know exactly what you feel.

There is something 'raw and unfinished' about the early cars. The power pours on from 3500-6000 rpm and the exhasut howl is GREAT!

The RSA is very fast in a linear fashion. Not torquey like the SC. The speed keeps coming and coming. You don't get that rush when the power kicks in.

In the two months that I have had the new car I have done a few minor things. You may want to consider this as well. I removed the secondary exhaust (Dansk bypass pipe) and cut the airbox cover (cup style). The car no longer purrs like a kitten, it roars under acceleration. The car was too quiet. While the butt dyno did not feel a great impovement, the ear and cheek dyno like what they hear and I can't wipe the stupid grin off my face.

Even the clutch and tranny sensation is different. While I don't miss the 'thighmaster' cable clutch, I do miss the ability to feel the clutch engaging.

The RSA is definately much faster and has virtually 70 more HP (180 vs 250) that is more than a 30% increase in HP. Unfortunately much is lost with the weight difference. The additional weight of the car also makes 'tossing' the car around different as well. The new car just isn't as nimble. But, it does turn better. The solid body and full cage don't hurt.

Even the feedback from the steering wheel is reduced.

The bottom line, is it is all about perception. The older cars seem to go faster because you sense (feel) the power, hear the power. You just don't get that with the new cars as they are so smooth.

Oh, and by the way, don't get me wrong. I love my new RSA. But I still love my old SC too.

This weekend the first DE with the new car. Can't wait! <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

Adrian

Dear Barry,
I think you need to consider that the 911SC is RWD. The C4 is permanent AWD. This makes a huge difference in feel. No comparison really. No power steering versus power steering. 911SC is somewhat lighter than a C4. I feel a comparison between 911SC and RSA is a much fairer.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

joey bagadonuts

I drove an '86 911 today--it was crap. (a little tribute to Greg1234 )

I guess I don't get it. Is the SC that different? This vehicle was in superb condition but where's the torque? I was afraid I was going to break the damn thing. And what's with that bumpy steering? This is desirable? The A/C worked pretty well, I must admit, but that long shifter, that springy clutch and that engine noise. You actually miss these things? If that's what you consider bliss, then you will absolutely wet yourself when you cut into that airbox.

Listen, I'm not trying to start something ... truly. I just feel the 964 is such a fantastic mix of old and new that to hear someone suggest greener pastures lie elsewhere ... well, it makes me wonder what I'm missing. From my test drives today and in the past, I have to admit that the modern classic, the 964, is still the right choice for me. I guess it's an SC thing.

I also tried an RSA over the weekend--it was definitely crap. Okay, this time I was behind the wheel of a very poor example. It was neglected and in need of some TLC. I've been in the nice ones and know why people loves these cars. Even though they're not real RS's, there's something very cool about this variant. That'll probably be my next move, especially since I know the 993TT is crap.

Jay H

Barry:

I was in the same situation 2 years ago that you are in now. I sold my '86 Carrera and got a '90 C2. The test drives in the 964's really had me hooked, but once I got mine home, I kinda missed the raw feeling of the older car... I thought to myself, "Did I make a mistake???"

What you need is a bunch more seat time in the 964. All those things that you miss about your SC are there in the 964. But, they are muted a bit. The sounds are there, the feel is there. These are so much more refined cars that it takes a bit to realize how much fun these cars are and that the 911 soul is still 100% there yet.

I remember with the '86 that I could tug along in town at low rev's and the car would be just fine doing that. Then, get outside of town and open it up and the car really came alive. The 964 will do that same stuff but much more easily (in town) and a heck of a lot quicker (gettin' on it when the roads open up). These cars pull like freight trains all the time and at any revs...

Get that C4 warmed up on a nice day and take her around your favorite back roads. Power through a few turns at high rpms, and you'll find out what the rest of us love so much about these 964's. Brake hard for a tight corner and you'll forget all about your SC.

There is so much torque in the 3.6 motor that you'll wonder how you ever made due with the older motor. Granted those early cars were much lighter, but there is quite a bit more power in the 964 to overcome the weight gain. The performance increase of the 964 vs. the 3.2 and older cars is very tangible. You definitely can feel the added power even though the 964 weighs more than the older cars. Porsche's own literature states various performance figures for an '86 Turbo are the same or similar to the 964 series cars. That's a lot of advancement because I never thought the older Turbo's were slow by any means.

Joey's quote above about the 964 being the best mix of old and new is spot on.

Give it some time. You'll love your new 964.

Jay
<a href="http://www.jays911.com" target="_blank">90 964</a>

MSchett2

I went from an 86 Targa to a 90 C2 Coupe and haven't looked back. More power and an excellent blend of old and new. The 964 has the look and feel of an older 911, but it is much more refined and improved - more livable if that is a word.

smokindav

Gee, could the difference be that one is a cabriolet? Nah, that couldn't be it could it? Golly, I don't know!



Dave Flaherty

GeoC2cab

High,
Listen to the guys above, my bud has a '85 targa, I have a '91 cab. We drive alot together, and though I have driven his car which is a ton of fun, we both agree the 964 is where it's at, why? Maybe it's the way I walk by him when he's doing a 140 mph like he's standing still on the highway, or maybe its in the twisties, he admits he can't catch me no matter what he tries(and he tries), or maybe it's just the way the car looks standing still.
You haven't made a mistake my friend.
Some suggestions if I may; Lower it, drill that box and do the primary like Joey says, and by then you will have the needle in your arm, the level of performance that can be achieved in these cars is "high" and quite "raw". <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

BarryG

Thanks for the replies! Once I get it back next week I will give it the fair shot it deserves. I was just astounded at the difference, all of the others I had driven had felt so similar. Granted, they were all between the years of 75 to 86... It wil be sad to get rid of the '78sc though! Onward in the cabrio!