300HP Everyday?
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,138
Likes: 122
From: USVI
The 964 was really clean for its time and there is a LOT of wiggle room to pass emissions, the pollution regulations at the time were;
Federal
For 1993 model year light-duty vehicles, the California exhaust emission compliance requirements involved a less stringent carbon monoxide standard of 7.0 g/mi (vs. the Federal standard of 3.4 g/mi) and a more stringent NOx standard of 0.4 g/mi (vs. the Federal standard of 1.0 g/mi) and optionally higher hydrocarbon, carbon monoxide and oxides of nitrogen emissions.
And the 964s were certified at;
3.8P&Cs shouldn't increase emissions that much, is CARB certification even required for internal engine parts?
Federal
Code:
Pollutant Standard
HC 0.41 g/mi
CO 3.4 g/mi
NOx 1.0 g/mi
Evaporative 2.0 g/test(1)
Particulate 0.20 g/mi(2)
And the 964s were certified at;
Code:
MANUFACTURER CERTIFICATION LEVELS
ENGINE FAMILY/EVAP-EMISS FAM EXHAUST EMISSIONS EVAPOR.
(DISPLACEMENT) T (GRAMS/MILE) EMISSIONS
CARLINES COVERED ENGINE R EQUIV (GRAMS)
DISP.& A S TEST ACT. OXIDES
VEHICLE CARLINE CARB N I WEIGHT DYNO AXLE HYDRO- CARBON OF HYDRO-
REPRESENTED EMISSION CONTROL SYSTEM VENTURISS L (LBS) HP RATIO CARBONS MONOXIDE NITROGEN CARBONS
PPR220V5FC26 / PPR1084AYPOC ENGINE-SYSTEM COMBINATION # = 1
(220-CU.IN.)
911 CARRERA 4/2 C 911 CARRERA 4/2 3CL/ / / / /CAN 220-FI L-4 N 3500 7.1 3.56 0.24 1.6 0.14 N/A
911 CARRERA 4/2 C 911 CARRERA 4/2 3CL/ / / / /CAN 220-FI L-4 N 3375 7.1 3.67 0.22 1.8 0.14 1.6 *
C 911 CARRERA 4/2 3CL/ / / / /CAN 220-FI M-4 N 3500 7.1 3.56 0.23 1.6 0.14 N/A
C 911 CARRERA 4/2 3CL/ / / / /CAN 220-FI M-5 N 3500 8.1 3.33 0.25 1.6 0.18 N/A
C 911 CARRERA 4/2 3CL/ / / / /CAN 220-FI M-5 N 3625 8.8 3.44 0.22 1.4 0.19 N/A
C 911 CARRERA 4/2 3CL/ / / / /CAN 220-FI M-5 N 3500 7.1 3.33 0.29 1.6 0.16 N/A
(EXHAUST DETERIORATION FACTORS FOR - 3CL/ / / / / FAMILY PPR220V5FC26 : 1.300 1.200 1.100 N/A )
(EVAPOR. DETERIORATION FACTORS FOR - / / / / /CAN FAMILY PPR1084AYPOC : N/A N/A N/A 0.400)
Addict
Lead Rennlist
Technical Advisor
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Lead Rennlist
Technical Advisor
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 8,027
Likes: 17
From: Parafield Gardens
Originally Posted by garrett376
I don't know for sure, I but I think just going with 3.8 p/c's won't get you to 300HP.
I am, though, very interested with the details, too, of what goes into reaching the 300HP level - I know Adrian's webiste goes into it a bit.
If I were to make a 3.8 that might have a chance passing CA smog, I'd go with 3.8 p/c's, titanium springs and retainers, mooned cylinder bases, knife edged crank. Using the stock DME, exhaust, cams & injectors will hopefully keep it smog legal - but not as powerful as it can get. I don't know anyone that has a 3.8 that's smog legal... do you?
I am, though, very interested with the details, too, of what goes into reaching the 300HP level - I know Adrian's webiste goes into it a bit.
If I were to make a 3.8 that might have a chance passing CA smog, I'd go with 3.8 p/c's, titanium springs and retainers, mooned cylinder bases, knife edged crank. Using the stock DME, exhaust, cams & injectors will hopefully keep it smog legal - but not as powerful as it can get. I don't know anyone that has a 3.8 that's smog legal... do you?
They can actually pass the test but they cannot pass the requirements to be allowed to be fitted or converted and fitted.
If you check with RUF you will see that their cars are only 49 State legal.
The testing done for certification by TÜV in Germany is no longer acceptable to CA.
A way around this is being looked at but take care in spending your money and always ask for CA certification paperwork or contact the CA authorities first.
Ciao,
Adrian.
PS: The Sportec 3.8 litre conversion passes all actual smog requirements including CA, Swiss (just as tough as CA and includes noise emissions tests as well) and delivers 320hp.
However CA will not accept the data because it does not meet their 50,000 miles of testing regulations which they kindly applied.
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,138
Likes: 122
From: USVI
Adrian,
For your MAF kit can't you apply for an Executive Order in CA instead of going for the full CARB certification? How much do emissions increase with say a MAF or a 3.8 kit?
For your MAF kit can't you apply for an Executive Order in CA instead of going for the full CARB certification? How much do emissions increase with say a MAF or a 3.8 kit?
Addict
Lead Rennlist
Technical Advisor
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Lead Rennlist
Technical Advisor
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 8,027
Likes: 17
From: Parafield Gardens
Dear Jason,
As I said this is under investigation but not by myself. I do not work for any of these people so all I can do is suggest and push a bit.
Sportec are in touch with CA regulatory authorities but if RUF could not get around the rules I doubt Sportec can either. However it will be attempted.
Ciao,
Adrian.
As I said this is under investigation but not by myself. I do not work for any of these people so all I can do is suggest and push a bit.
Sportec are in touch with CA regulatory authorities but if RUF could not get around the rules I doubt Sportec can either. However it will be attempted.
Ciao,
Adrian.
Race Car
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,922
Likes: 1
From: London, UK
Yep, its the smog thing that causes the problem. 300+ HP in a N/A 964 is easy but not cheap. I have around 290rwhp but I am totally pollutive. I don't run a CAT or anything else.
One thing about fuel consumption though, having installed Motec the fuel consumption has reduced to around 33mpg when cruising at 80mph. So on long trips if I take it easy I get actually better mileage....
One thing about fuel consumption though, having installed Motec the fuel consumption has reduced to around 33mpg when cruising at 80mph. So on long trips if I take it easy I get actually better mileage....
Race Car
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,140
Likes: 1
From: Surrey, UK
On the subject of power - I noticed the other day that a dyno has appeared literally 2 minutes drive from my house. I looked it up on the web, and it is a 4WD dyno. Although I did get plots once before, G-Force had some trouble stopping the wheels spinning - and since it's so close I'm tempted to pay the new place a visit. For £45 + vat - and since it's so close - it's pretty tempting.
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,266
Likes: 3
From: Europe
Careful about dynos... 2 dudes from the 993 TT gang blew their viscous drives last weekend AFAIK.
Expensive...
Many Euro 964 RS's were brought to 300 HP... can't remember the most popular solution but might b worth investigating.
Expensive...
Many Euro 964 RS's were brought to 300 HP... can't remember the most popular solution but might b worth investigating.
Rennlist Stories
The Best Porsche Posts for Porsche Enthusiasts
9 Vehicles Porsche Helped Engineer that Aren't Porsches
Verdad Gallardo
9 Features and Characteristics That Only Porsche People Understand
Verdad Gallardo
I've Written 500 Rennlist Articles: Here's How Porsche Has Changed Along the Way
Joe Kucinski
10 Most Unnecessary Porsches Ever Built (And Why We Love Them)
Verdad Gallardo
Porsche 911 GT3 S/C vs 718 Spyder RS: 10 Categories, One Winner
Joe Kucinski
This Builder Is Turning Heads With Its Slantnose 911 Creation
Verdad Gallardo
Porsche 911 GT3 Artisan Edition Pays Homage to Japanese Culture
Verdad Gallardo
Porsche Reveals Coupe Variant of the Electric Cayenne With a Fresh Look
Verdad Gallardo
10 Porsche Colors That Have More Personality Than Most People
Verdad Gallardo
Advanced
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: London
I have approx 265rwhp which, depending on what losses you want to assume is about 300ish Flywheel horsepower. These are the bits that got me there. Cost was in addition to top end re-build. Different cams, plastic inlet manifolds and later throttle assembly, enlarged throttle body, cup air box, K & N filter, de-cat, cup pipe, machine heads to raise compression ratio slightly, new valve springs, titanium retainers, RS flywheel and clutch, re-conditioned fuel injectors, re-chip running on shell optimax petrol. If you threw in 3.8 litre barrels and pistons you might get an extra 10bhp for £3000ish (parts only !!) Above this you're in Christer's territory, which I am sure he will confirm is quite expensive !!!
Car revs like mad, sounds awesome, is really good fun and is real quick for a fifteen year old.
Hope this is of interest.
Car revs like mad, sounds awesome, is really good fun and is real quick for a fifteen year old.
Hope this is of interest.