Adrian

Yes I am disappointed but on the other hand there is no point getting nasty about it because after all it is just about cars. When you think about the real problems in this world Porsche on the race track is not really up there.

I have to respectfully disagree with your comments on WW. He is one smart cookie and he knows exactly what he is doing. We might not agree with his policies. He has his own vision for Porsche and a lot of people (read shareholders and Supervisory board) are very happy with it because they have extended his contract.
The Japanese input in the late 80s and early 90s made a huge difference to Porsche (read Toyota and Subaru).
Porsche makes more profit (45-70% depending on who you read) out of currency trading than out of making cars.
I also have to be honest with you because this came from the inside.
"The 964 was made for the Porsche enthusiast, we will never do that again."
Ciao,
Adrian.

TaylorSea4

Indy, you ARE right; Cupcar incorrectly stated the Z06 weight a bit heavy. My bad. You DID, however suggest the Z06 vs. the C-GT; to which I pointed out was a wee bit unfair (sarcasm alert). Which brakes to have on my race car and what not. Actually, yes, the C-GT's brakes are a lot closer to racing spec than the Z06; but as I tried to point out, that comparison is dead wrong.

Hey, if the Z06 cost almost half a million dollars, it might have CARBON brakes or something; F1 style. At that asking price, a Z06 might be an Enzo- killer. And **** on Ferrari for not putting THAT on the track, either. Ferrari and Porsche can build the jaw-dropping supercars and charge a king's ransom for them. Meanwhile Chevy rethinks the timeless American machismo icon and shapes it into a world-beater sportscar. A car that not maybe everyone car afford, but be sure it's not a show toy for the elite. A car that is twice the track-ready toy the 997 is.

I then tried to point out that the C6R would have been a bit more fair of a comparo, despite the Porsche being street legal collector's piece. Hey, at least Chevy has the ***** to lay their best on the line. IN the fight, trading paint, beating the snot outta anything that gets in the way. Or losing with honor of having made the effort; something Porsche has refused to do for more than half a decade now.

Adrian, you really are one of the most knowledgable guys on the 'List. Is there anything you DON'T know? I too remember that Weyer's team (as well as Penske in Can-Am) were damn near single-handedly responsible for the 917's success. Weyer also had a hand in the GT40's last wins at Le Mans, right?

Cupcar, again AWESOME history lessons, man. I'm guessing you are a bit older than I am, but I wish more younger guys would study the history of racing as it was. It is such a bygone era, man. It's sad to see the prima-donna's of the current generation unable to compete in other races due to contractual obligations. I love the story of Gurney's last Le Mans win with AJ Foyt. Between F1 races, bought a ticket (with HIS money), got to the track, and drove that ***** home. The victory where the champagne-spraying tradition was born.

Adrian

No I do not know everything. Much more to learn yet.
The CR6 has been accepted for Le Mans 2005 by the way.
I am not really familiar with the whole GT-40 story. A dear friend of mine drove one in the late 60s at Le Mans and elsewhere. I will have to ask him.
Ciao,
Adrian.

pcar964

(Adrian) I also have to be honest with you because this came from the inside.
"The 964 was made for the Porsche enthusiast, we will never do that again."

Adrian, it's interesting you say that, I don't know why the 964 gets such a bad rap, my best friend's RS America (close to real RS specs now ;-) is one of my favorite 911s EVER, it makes my 993 feel like... well, a 996 ;-)

Do you have any more insights from "the inside"? If you don't feel comfortable telling the masses, you can email me, I won't tell!

Greg

Wachuko

Please... not even as a joke I would love to own again a 993 (and not let go of my 964 of course)... but the 993 is the last of the line... and a very nice car... no need to insult it by comparing it with the 996 (and no flames... it is just that the 996 is such a different car when compared to the 993)...

Sorry.... got a bit emotional there...

Adrian

Senior Porsche management did not like the 964. They felt it was an enthusiasts car not a car for their "standard customer". It was not comfortable or quiet enough. Read "Those who like to say they own a Porsche (complete with cup holders)". You know the XX% of Porsche owners who are not on Rennlist or other enthusiast forums because it is the badge not the car that is important.
For the record I do not think this is a bad rap at all. In fact I reckon it is a compliment. The 964 is identified by Porsche management as a real or enthusiasts Porsche to be driven in noise not in comfort.
That was the real reason the suspension was redesigned for the 993. Not to make it handle better but to make it quieter.
Ciao,
Adrian.

Cupcar

The story I heard on the GT40 was that the program came after a failed attempt by Ford to buy Ferrari.

A PO'ed Mr Ford decided to show them how a little American engineering could spray Champagne on their parade.

Cupcar

Just thought of something regarding my age and Chevrolet and racing.

My first ever car race before I ever dreamed of going to a car race even came when I was invited to go to the Riverside F1 Grand Prix in 1961. I was told it was the height of racing but had absolutely no idea what F1 was.

I watched from turn 6. I was completely taken and have been an F1 fan since. The cars were dwarfed that day however by the appearance of a car called a CERV 1, which meant a Chevrolet Engineering Reseach Vehicle. The announcement was made that the car was going to take a few laps of the circuit driven by Stirling Moss as I recall. The track was completel quiet and I could hear the car leaving the pit but could not see it. The V8 engine bellowed and the car came into site up the esses. Too me at the time it looked like it was from outer space and it was FAST. It completely overshadowed any F! car for me that day. It could be heard all the way around the track.

Turns out this car has the suspension of the next generation Corvette to come in 1963, too bad without the CERV mid engine.

After that we drove home and waiting in line to exit, one of the F! cars came along driving on the roads edge passing everybody. I remember the car driving right next to the driver's side of our car and I just saw the drivers head go by. The car, maybe a Lotus drove into a driveway for one of the homes nearby and I could see the team had set itself up in the garage of a private home!!!

In 1971 I went to my next Grand Prix, Austria. The race was like an SCCA race and I could see the drivers on a cheap ticket.

Next race, Long Beach, mid 80's. I was walking aroung the back of the pit building and ran into Niki Lauda sitting in a big red Ferrari van's driver seat eating a big bowl of spaghetti all by himself. Drivers seen on a cheap ticket.

Last race, European GP at Nurburgring 1999. This time on a Paddock Club ticket (which someone else paid for) that costs over a $1000 a day. Lunch, video monitors, open bar, manicured space, reserved seat, reserved parking. Most of all scheduled "pit walkabouts", times when we could go see the teams in action. Well, that weekend I never even saw a driver, hell I never even saw anyone I recognized but Dr. Sid Watkins who I saw for a second. The walkabouts were just the pits roped off and one could see the cars maybe 25 feet away. The whole "show" was behind a ring of circled huge tractor trailor rigs with attached tents- no entry for us minions. Doubt I will go to F1 again, better on TV

Tims are changing.

Adrian

Yes and he got the Brits to do the job.

Some additional news.
Mahle the piston manufacturers in Stuttgart have just been purchased by Audi. (read announced a while ago but the paperwork was not finalised until late last week).

Audi purchased Cosworth Engineering in the UK. Technically this means that Audi are now in F1.

Ciao,
Adrian.

pcar964

Indycam, it's safe to say very few of us on this board would trade our cars for a corvette - our point is, GM has stepped up and is making truly trackworthy cars that are faster than what Porsche is selling for much more, short of a GT3. That is disturbing to those of us who remember when WE were the giant killers, not the other way around.

Cupcar

Hi Adrian- Like I said in my post before before the Americans don't have a problem with the "not invented here syndrome"; they just want to win the race. The Brits did the chassis, Dearborn did the running gear, Gurney sprayed the Champagne

pcar964-

Adrian

Dear Indycam,
Ferrari compete in all the sports car series on this side of the pond. They also have their own series called the Ferrari challenge and there is the Ferrari-Porsche Challenge series. Plus of course F1.
Ferrari are out many more than 10 times a year.
At Le Mans 2004 the ding dong battle that lasted the whole 24 hours was between the Prodrive Ferrari 550s and guess what? The Chevy Corvettes. The Corvette won.
Everytime there is a sports car race, Ferrari are out there. This season you can add the LMES Sports car endurance races as well and Ferrari are racing in all of them inmore than one class I might add.
They have the 360s, 550s and 575s all racing and The House of Trident (Maserati) with the MC12.
Ciao,
Adrian.

pcar964

Indycam, that might be a little extreme. Obviously you aren't very passionate about your Porsche racing, and that's fine - but would you please admit that GM (and Ferrari, thank you Adrian), are putting Porsche to shame on the racetrack.... the first step in finding a solution is admitting there's a problem.

TaylorSea4

Adrian, I wasn't implying that Ferrari's aren't on the track. Hell, they own the F1 series, and that IS a lot more than Porsche is willing to do now. The Challenge/ Cup series, while cool, only demonstrate driver talent. The Prodrive car aren't factory jobs, but I can still appreciate that Ferrari has a ton of them running every damn class. Cupcar, yeah, the GT40 was Henry's vengence against old man Enzo. Beat 'em at their own game. Brit chassis, Detroit iron, American heroes at the wheel. I just remember in the GT's wearing the Gulf colors in it last 2 years at Le Mans. I wanna say that those cars were run and prepped by Weyer??

Hey, Indy, you don't need to stuff a V8 in whatever it is you drive, man; just rock the NAWS, baby!! Your silly little passive-aggressive trip only proves my point even more. Why am I not on Bush's team? Cuz I told him I wouldn't suffer silly little liberal fools and their little sideways smart-*** remarks. You wanna stand up and potty like a big boy, ya better bring it a LOT stronger than that, bub.

Cupcar

Yep- Same John Wyer did the GT40 program. Ford had Adanced Vehicles set up in England and sold it to John Wyer and gave him the GT40 project. There was a lot of shared information and technology exchanged from Ford to JW Engineering. After Ford quit the GT40 program, Wyer was given the 917 by Porsche- which then became the recipient of Ford's experience.