OT : The reason a Porsche is expensive to maintain
01-09-2005, 03:35 PM
#46
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Indycam,
It would appear your business is based on a quality first basis with fees charged to reflect the cost of providing that quality. I would venture the Mamiya owner in your example would find the cost of repair exceeds the value of the camera and would be better of discarding the camera in favour of a mew one. If our eponymous customer asked you to do it cheaper by lowering your standards , would you?
It would appear your business is based on a quality first basis with fees charged to reflect the cost of providing that quality. I would venture the Mamiya owner in your example would find the cost of repair exceeds the value of the camera and would be better of discarding the camera in favour of a mew one. If our eponymous customer asked you to do it cheaper by lowering your standards , would you?
01-09-2005, 04:20 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by Indycam
"If our eponymous customer asked you to do it cheaper by lowering your standards , would you?"
Its kind of hard to lower the standards , its got to work , I cant give it back broken .
I do ask if they would like to do some sort of trade , or time payments .
If I spend the time to generate a firm quote ,
and then they try and ask for the price to be reduced ,
I just cant play that game .
If I dicker on the price my quote has to go up because of the time it takes to dicker .
Its kind of hard to lower the standards , its got to work , I cant give it back broken .
I do ask if they would like to do some sort of trade , or time payments .
If I spend the time to generate a firm quote ,
and then they try and ask for the price to be reduced ,
I just cant play that game .
If I dicker on the price my quote has to go up because of the time it takes to dicker .
To be fair it would have been better if you were able to use cheap parts but I don't suppose that's possible anyway.
01-09-2005, 05:36 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by Kahdmus
Hi R, hope all is well with you!
Interesting post and I certainly follow the logic, however in reality many models in todays competitive market operate on tighter margins and strive for all three..and so they should!
Frankly I expect and am happy to pay for higher quality and/or service but I dont expect to pay more for the SAME quality and service someone else is getting at a lower rate, which I think goes to the heart of DaveK's point!
Cheers mate,
Interesting post and I certainly follow the logic, however in reality many models in todays competitive market operate on tighter margins and strive for all three..and so they should!
Frankly I expect and am happy to pay for higher quality and/or service but I dont expect to pay more for the SAME quality and service someone else is getting at a lower rate, which I think goes to the heart of DaveK's point!
Cheers mate,
Yes I agree that today the pressure is on to provide all three - the impetus seemingly being fuelled by cost reductions on the supply side.
best
01-09-2005, 07:02 PM
#50
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I kinda have to side with Tony. You want a Festiva quality paint (ie; lower standards adhered to by the manufacturor) then pay Festiva prices. And YES, I sure as hell would pay a little extra for VIP valet parking (the cars that get parked up front) to reduce the chances of door dings and such. That's not to suggest that I take lesser care with my beater Acura, but hey, that's why it's a beater, right?
I don't think Julian said he gives a $40 effort for a $40 job and an $80 effort for an $80 job. God knows I long for the day a 964 or even just a "lowly" 951 finds its way to my garage (although an 18' Hewes poling skiff will probably be there first), and I'd be hard pressed to not apply the you-get-what-you-pay-for rule to it. I apply that same rule to my Honda, fer Crissakes. And Dave, you have a VERY valid point. I just had a new Kenwood deck put in my Acura, and the face plate was a bit geeked up (didn't line up flush along the bottom edge). I did not leave until that was right. I didn't sit there and act like Julian's Mr. **** example, but I wasn't any less happy that I might have been if it had been a friggin' 914, a '78 Corolla (owned 2, thankyouverymuch), or a Carrera GT.
All this blathering aside, I still say it's criminal to be quoted a different price for tires once they know it's a f**kin' Porsche. I'd get a quote like that in writing and call the Texas Board of Don't Rape the Customers. Paint and other craftsmanship jobs like stereo installs?? Tough call; leaning towards YGWYPF rule. Peace and twisty roads, y'all.
ps- Indy, I loathe my cubicle, but I'd never trade for even the WORST of our "adventures"; which is how we refer to those FUBAR fishing trips.
I don't think Julian said he gives a $40 effort for a $40 job and an $80 effort for an $80 job. God knows I long for the day a 964 or even just a "lowly" 951 finds its way to my garage (although an 18' Hewes poling skiff will probably be there first), and I'd be hard pressed to not apply the you-get-what-you-pay-for rule to it. I apply that same rule to my Honda, fer Crissakes. And Dave, you have a VERY valid point. I just had a new Kenwood deck put in my Acura, and the face plate was a bit geeked up (didn't line up flush along the bottom edge). I did not leave until that was right. I didn't sit there and act like Julian's Mr. **** example, but I wasn't any less happy that I might have been if it had been a friggin' 914, a '78 Corolla (owned 2, thankyouverymuch), or a Carrera GT.
All this blathering aside, I still say it's criminal to be quoted a different price for tires once they know it's a f**kin' Porsche. I'd get a quote like that in writing and call the Texas Board of Don't Rape the Customers. Paint and other craftsmanship jobs like stereo installs?? Tough call; leaning towards YGWYPF rule. Peace and twisty roads, y'all.
ps- Indy, I loathe my cubicle, but I'd never trade for even the WORST of our "adventures"; which is how we refer to those FUBAR fishing trips.
01-09-2005, 07:26 PM
#51
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I think this has probably run its course and it has been a lot of fun. We've established that some people recognise that their posessions are more costly than others and so present anyone who comes into contact with them with more potential risk. We've established that there are some gallant individuals who will eschew this risk in order to maintain their service principles. We have established that basically everyone wants to feel that they got a deal.
Within the basis of this we are all expected to get along and for livings to be made and work done.
God help up all....
Within the basis of this we are all expected to get along and for livings to be made and work done.
God help up all....
01-09-2005, 07:37 PM
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Hey, something we can ALL agree upon! 
I love taking points, Julian. Engaging conversations are what seperate us from the rest of the animals. So, do y'all have any sort of consumer protection programs in England? I know Texas really does have a consumer protection board of this and that to go after price gougers and such. Sadly, it's a lot more common that people think.
I love taking points, Julian. Engaging conversations are what seperate us from the rest of the animals. So, do y'all have any sort of consumer protection programs in England? I know Texas really does have a consumer protection board of this and that to go after price gougers and such. Sadly, it's a lot more common that people think.
01-09-2005, 07:58 PM
#53
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It's interesting ( to me anyway) how those who are "service providers" have a different perspective on this.
Julian seems to have a mild scar on his psyche as a result of being on the receiving end. Being relatively youthful I expect he'll make a full recovery
FWIW my advice on recognising future clients of this type is, a quote of " there is not enough money in the world to deal with f@ckwits like you" is quite liberating. Saves a lot of time, money and heartache as well.
Julian seems to have a mild scar on his psyche as a result of being on the receiving end. Being relatively youthful I expect he'll make a full recovery
FWIW my advice on recognising future clients of this type is, a quote of " there is not enough money in the world to deal with f@ckwits like you" is quite liberating. Saves a lot of time, money and heartache as well.
01-09-2005, 08:20 PM
#54
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I think there are some seriously crossed lines in this thread. There ARE extremely valid points on each side: I think Julian and Tony are correct in their opinion but I also believe that this can be viewed seperately from the original point being made.
I for one am happy to pay MORE for better quality and service but I take exception to paying more for the exact same quality and standard simply because the provider is under the impression that he can take liberties with my checkbook because I have an expensive motor car - and I think this was the area that the initial post pertained to. It DOES happen, its not a perfect world and many people are willing to take advantage when they think the cash flows freely! This however does not mean that those willing to perform a higher standard of service or provide a higher quality product should not expect to be better compensated for it, quite to the contrary; our cars are better made, are more complex, give higher performance and of course cost more to maintain. Shops require more expensive equipment and have to pay higher insurance premiums etc, etc...
But this was not open for debate (I dont think) - the point made was simply that people WILL take advantage..and YES they do! I think some of the debate from the 'window switches thread' was carried over to this one and arguments are being posed against a completely different point of view.
I for one am happy to pay MORE for better quality and service but I take exception to paying more for the exact same quality and standard simply because the provider is under the impression that he can take liberties with my checkbook because I have an expensive motor car - and I think this was the area that the initial post pertained to. It DOES happen, its not a perfect world and many people are willing to take advantage when they think the cash flows freely! This however does not mean that those willing to perform a higher standard of service or provide a higher quality product should not expect to be better compensated for it, quite to the contrary; our cars are better made, are more complex, give higher performance and of course cost more to maintain. Shops require more expensive equipment and have to pay higher insurance premiums etc, etc...
But this was not open for debate (I dont think) - the point made was simply that people WILL take advantage..and YES they do! I think some of the debate from the 'window switches thread' was carried over to this one and arguments are being posed against a completely different point of view.
01-09-2005, 08:31 PM
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God, Tony, if ONLY "the help" could talk to the baddies like that in my bizz. That's actually why I ENJOY it when a guest starts swearing like a sailor. He/ she give me a right to smile pretty and say, "This conversation is OVER."
01-09-2005, 08:44 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by TaylorSea4
God, Tony, if ONLY "the help" could talk to the baddies like that in my bizz. That's actually why I ENJOY it when a guest starts swearing like a sailor. He/ she give me a right to smile pretty and say, "This conversation is OVER."
01-09-2005, 09:56 PM
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I would agree; it IS a state of mind. As I sit there and smile while biting my tongue, I tell myself the truth. Only a self-centered, self-righteous ***** walks around with the "Don't-you-KNOW-who-I-am?" attitude. I try to appreciate that in two ways: NOT acting that way to people in the service industry (often treated as "the help" by ******). You catch more flies with honey, anyway. Secondly, I do sommersaults when I get the opportunity to serve/ work for someone who is genuinely happy to be that we are able to accomodate them. It's guests like that which remind me of why I enjoy this restaurant bizz.
Or, just take a page from 'Fight Club.' And I quote:
"Tyler was THE guerilla terrorist in the food service industry. Apart from seasoning the lobster bisque, he farted on the meringue, sneezed on braised endive, and as for the cream of mushroom soup, well...
... you get the idea."
Or, just take a page from 'Fight Club.' And I quote:
"Tyler was THE guerilla terrorist in the food service industry. Apart from seasoning the lobster bisque, he farted on the meringue, sneezed on braised endive, and as for the cream of mushroom soup, well...
... you get the idea."
01-10-2005, 08:58 AM
#59
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Overcharging is not acceptable. Charging people for work not done is not acceptable. Charging people more for exactly the same job as someone else because you think they are rich is not acceptable if the two jobs and circumstances are identical. I do not doubt any of these things, in fact, I insist on them.
However, charging more to reflect the fact that getting involved in more risky work is acceptable and risk can be and IS lurking in everything you do.
A good businessman is compelled to assess his risk in a dispassionate way and that means those who present the most risk get the biggest bills.
Following on from this and to get back to the original post, Dave presented the car radio dealer with this question:
Will you take responsibility for my £60000 Porsche for the next 3 hours, drive it in the workshop on your insurance policy, get someone to work on it to a high standard, fit my speakers that you are making absolutley nothing on and then warrant that installation for 12 months for £50 ?
The car radio shop decided that the answer was no - £80 was required to make it worth them doing the work and shouldering the "package" that Dave presented.
I think they deserve to be congratulated for not de valuing the service rather than berrated for trying to charge too much, especially as Dave had already had work done by them in the past and had been happy with their "package".
However, charging more to reflect the fact that getting involved in more risky work is acceptable and risk can be and IS lurking in everything you do.
A good businessman is compelled to assess his risk in a dispassionate way and that means those who present the most risk get the biggest bills.
Following on from this and to get back to the original post, Dave presented the car radio dealer with this question:
Will you take responsibility for my £60000 Porsche for the next 3 hours, drive it in the workshop on your insurance policy, get someone to work on it to a high standard, fit my speakers that you are making absolutley nothing on and then warrant that installation for 12 months for £50 ?
The car radio shop decided that the answer was no - £80 was required to make it worth them doing the work and shouldering the "package" that Dave presented.
I think they deserve to be congratulated for not de valuing the service rather than berrated for trying to charge too much, especially as Dave had already had work done by them in the past and had been happy with their "package".
01-10-2005, 09:19 AM
#60
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Will you take responsibility for my £60000 Porsche for the next 3 hours, drive it in the workshop on your insurance policy, get someone to work on it to a high standard, fit my speakers that you are making absolutley nothing on and then warrant that installation for 12 months for £50 ?
The car radio shop decided that the answer was no - £80 was required to make it worth them doing the work and shouldering the "package" that Dave presented.
The car radio shop decided that the answer was no - £80 was required to make it worth them doing the work and shouldering the "package" that Dave presented.
The fact that they did not supply the kit is irrelevant - because they also did not supply the kit for my mates Fiat - which cost him £50.
And even if my car was worth £60,000 - in fact, even if it was worth £600,000 - what difference does £30 really make? If they did break something significant on my car £30 is unlikely to cover it.
If it all comes down to value, then I assume that if I took a £10K Porsche there - which is roughly what my mates Fiat is worth - then I guess I would get the £50 deal?