Larry Herman

I am thinking about building/buying a 964 Club Racer. I have a few questions about the car, since my knowledge jumps straight from the Carreras to the GT3s. Any info, or direction to look would be appreciated.

1) Any years to avoid & why?
2) Any non-sunroof cars built?
3) What were the widest wheels available from the factory?
4) What wheels can you fit on the car?
5) How are the brakes?
6) Anyone running them at the front of E or D?

Thanks.

carreracup21

Larry, Get a USA Cup for D class, they are already seam welded, blueprinted, all factory deletes, and have many go fast parts installed ( big brakes, aluminum hood ). They are the cars to beat in D class, unless one of the rare 944T Cup cars shows up. They also hold their value well, since they are collector cars, and also are the only US legal RS ever factory imported. I think Berlack is selling his car on the PCA site and that was a very competitive car. Jim Newman may also have one for sale ? Many of the 964 guys run 8x18 and 10x18 and that's about as big as you can fit, but I run 9.5's. 17's will also work. Other option would be a Euro Cup in GTC1 and that's where some of the old F troop is now.

Bill Gregory

If you haven't already, you might want to read the 964 FAQ. here.

Yes.

On non-Carrera RS, 6" and 8" were optional. On the Carrera RS, I believe the fronts were 7.5" and the rears 9".

With 17's, 8.0-8.5's in front with offset around 52mm, and 10" in the rear, around 47mm offset, without cutting off or rolling the fender lip edges. Taking care of fender lip edges you can go to a little lower offset, 42mm-44mm. Most PCA Club racers are running 18's.

Stock non-Carrera RS, on the track, OK but not great. 90 and 91 C2 had 2 piston, too small rear calipers. 92-on C2 had same 4 piston rears as C4. Upgrading brakes, in PCA, pushes you up a class from stock. One of the difficulties is getting cooling air to the brakes.

Check PCA race results here.

In the March 2004 Pano, there was an article on 964 track preparation, which might be worthwhile reading. If you don't have that issue of Pano handy, the article, with a couple of minor updates, is also on the web here.

clubrcr

Larry:

I raced a US Carrera Cup in PCA was quite successful with it. I also had a 944 Rothman's Turbo Cup, which are very fast as well. My advice... come up with an initial amount of money you plan on spending. US Carrera Cups and Rothman Turbos are more expensive becuase they are factory built and have most of the necessary race parts on them. They are also more rare, which keeps their prices higher. that might help you on resale if you don't crack it up. You can buyt a regular 964 for less money, then overtime budget the money towards the car. Another strong contender is the 964 turbo 3.3. Not alot of money to buy one and they are pretty fast out of the box.

Cupcar#12

92 cup cars used 8" fronts and 9.5 rears
- more info www.carreracupusa.org

are you looking for a built car or a builder?
figure a nice RS America + Safety, extra wheels, prep, etc for 60Kish (40K + 20K prep)
or a 92 cup for 65-75K (dependson the car & if it will have the race spec)

Larry Herman

Thanks guys. I am not sure what I want to do yet. I really don't feel like spending $65 or $70K, and that comes close to 993 cup car money, which is a bit faster. I was thinking that maybe a prepared 964 could be quite fast in D, with a total expenditure of around $50. I probably won't do anything until next year though, so while I had some time on my hands, I figured I'd start thinking about it.

Bill Gregory

Find a non-sunroof C2 for 20K, plus $20K-$30K to prep and upgrades. Since you'll be racing, why pay the RS America premium, unless that puts you in a different class that you want to get into. With a C2, you could always put in a manual rack and gut the rear interior and run as an RSA, if you wanted.

clubrcr

I think you'll have a hard time taking a regular C-2 and be a dominate racer in "D" unless you are one heck of a driver. You might be better off keeping it within the non-prepared rules and letting it run in "E".

joey bagadonuts

There are a number of competitiv C2 racers out East which come to mind: Oliver Ziztman, Ron Savenor and Manny Alban. The first two guys are running in E while Manny appears to be running a prepared C2 at RSA weight (2,760 vs. 3,031 lbs) in C. I have no idea how much these guys spent making these cars competitive but $20K sounds like a reasonable low-side number.

$0.02

Manny Alban

If I had to do it again, I'd probably sell my C2 and buy a 964 Cup car, but since I can't foresee the future, I'm happy to say that I'm very content with my C2. It's not the hot ticket in C class, but I built it to be a fun car for DE, pca club racing and non-pca racing. Savenor and Zitzman are great drivers and what they do with 964's is incredible. I think I've done every legal mod I can on the C2 for C class (short of removing the sunroof), so now it's a continual evolution of sorting out and learning. Dropping the weight was the biggest improvement and it made racing in other sanctioning bodies better also. Sometimes I'm lucky and the races I enter are missing the dominant 993RSCS.

Larry Herman

Yeah, that's the question. I have run against Jeff Burger in the past, and I know how fast Ronnie Savenor is when he was in E and I was in F. I wonder if a C2 with wider fenders & wheels, geared, chipped, winged and big braked is a faster car than a C2 cup car, seeing as how they would both be in D.

carreracup21

Jeff Curtis runs a prepared C2 in D, but I think the weight is the critical issue. A prepared C2 will have to run @ 3016 lbs. in D and that is the problem vs. a RSA or Cup at 2760 lbs. It's very hard to overcome the weight difference. You are probably better off re-classifying a C2 as a RSA, then removing the AC to run at 2760 lbs. in D. Otherwise I would just keep a stock C2 in E and battle all the 944T's at 3016lbs. But then again, Savenor beat all the E cars and D cars when he was running in E at Road Atlanta last year with his heavy 3000 lb. 964 C2 with a sunroof and all !! He is fast.

clubrcr

The other side of this discussion for the original post is re-sale. Spending a lot of money to make a car competitive usally gets you very little on the resale market, the 964 Cups, both euro and US, seem to be worth the premium. You buy one, race it and you tend to get the majority of your money back. I went both routes, I'll find it hard to ever buy a non-factory race car again.

ltc

$20K for race prep seems like a low number. I went thru these financial contortions with my RSA, which I sold and bought a 964 Euro Cup (thanks again Jim).

JC in NY

Another nice thing about the racing Carrera Cup car is the driving experience; with slick tires and almost 300 hp on tap at 2550 pounds you can drive it sideways with the throttle.