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Clutch Pedal Roll Pin Failure (or, the clutch ain't dead yet!)

 
Old 11-22-2004, 11:29 PM
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Eric Kessel
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Default Clutch Pedal Roll Pin Failure (or, the clutch ain't dead yet!)

For a while the car has been hard to get out of gear when stopping..... getting progressively worse... until Sunday, then it's hard to get into gear..... and when it's in gear, the car is slowly rolling forward, with the clutch pedal to the floor.......

Hoping for the best, I removed the pedal cluster (leaving all the hydralics untouched), and y'up, the roll pin is in pieces, and the pedal moves 1/3 of it's travel without moving the master cylinder.......

It looks like I can replace the roll pin with an m6 - 35 mm bolt with a lock nut, so tomorrow I'll put it back together.......

-Eric
NER/PCA
90 C2
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Old 11-24-2004, 06:38 AM
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Pete 90 C4
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Eric,

The same happened to me a few months back - I just ground off a hss drill bit to size and glued it in place with some loctite! Works better than it ever has now - and not too difficult a job

Cheers,
Pete 90 C4 Coupe.
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Old 11-24-2004, 11:58 AM
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???? Are our cars in sync or what!!???

Let me look at PET for the parts diagram on the pedal cluster.... my car is suffering the same (had to use it all week this week and last week due to the R32 being at the shop for repairs)...

I was worried because my clutch has less than 8k miles...

Any chance you can take a photo of the offending part??? Thanks!!
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Old 11-24-2004, 12:33 PM
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I'm sorry, I put it back together again. If you look at the p-car.com/diy section on the kinematic lever update, that is the part that is held on with the roll pin. (the 993 part will not work with our cars, since it uses a spline to hold the part on, while we have a rotten roll pin)

It was actually pretty easy to do, there are the three screws holding the wooden floor board (two on the bottom, and one right behind the accelerator pedal), then there are the four 13mm nuts on the floor holding the pedal assembly. There are two more 13mm nuts holding the clutch master cylinder on. After that, there are the two safety clips (one for the brake rod, and one for the clutch). Detach the accelerator cable (ball joint that just pops off), and unplug the cruise control wires, and the brake light connector. I was able to wiggle the pedal assembly out without breaking open the clutch hydraulic lines.

I found a 6mm bolt (about 35-40mm long) with a lock nut to use, although I'm not sure it a2-70 steel is strong enough for the long term.

The clutch feels great now, very smooth, and much easier to actuate, it improved the feel immensely.

I had a couple inches of clutch pedal travel without moving the master cylinder, and it felt very "crunchy".

What is next for our DIY adventures? (I don't have a garage, so I do all my work in the driveway. With snow coming any day now, I was anxious to get this fixed....... )

-Eric
90 C2
NER/PCA

(Oh yeah, thanks again for the plug lead pictures, it turned out one of my coil connectors was worn out and flopping around at the top of the coil...... replaced that and it's been running much smoother)
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Old 11-24-2004, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric Kessel
I'm sorry, I put it back together again. If you look at the p-car.com/diy section on the kinematic lever update, that is the part that is held on with the roll pin. (the 993 part will not work with our cars, since it uses a spline to hold the part on, while we have a rotten roll pin)

It was actually pretty easy to do, there are the three screws holding the wooden floor board (two on the bottom, and one right behind the accelerator pedal), then there are the four 13mm nuts on the floor holding the pedal assembly. There are two more 13mm nuts holding the clutch master cylinder on. After that, there are the two safety clips (one for the brake rod, and one for the clutch). Detach the accelerator cable (ball joint that just pops off), and unplug the cruise control wires, and the brake light connector. I was able to wiggle the pedal assembly out without breaking open the clutch hydraulic lines.

I found a 6mm bolt (about 35-40mm long) with a lock nut to use, although I'm not sure it a2-70 steel is strong enough for the long term.

The clutch feels great now, very smooth, and much easier to actuate, it improved the feel immensely.

I had a couple inches of clutch pedal travel without moving the master cylinder, and it felt very "crunchy".

What is next for our DIY adventures? (I don't have a garage, so I do all my work in the driveway. With snow coming any day now, I was anxious to get this fixed....... )

-Eric
90 C2
NER/PCA

(Oh yeah, thanks again for the plug lead pictures, it turned out one of my coil connectors was worn out and flopping around at the top of the coil...... replaced that and it's been running much smoother)
Who needs photos with that explanation!!! Thank you!!! The beauty of this forum!!! Now I can sleep better... I was already thinking I would have to pull the engine and tranny for a clutch replacement/inspection... justifying the cost of a lift instead of taking it to the dealer, etc...

I will take photos along the way and post them here!!
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Old 05-17-2005, 11:43 AM
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Jeff Curtis
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I'm getting concerned that I have the same issues...but have been concerned for over a year now.

Does anyone have a PN for this ellusive "rollpin"??

Pete, I also like the hardened drill bit idea...seems feasible that it would be stronger...what size drillbit was used? (1/4"??)
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Old 05-17-2005, 02:16 PM
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Jeff, it's part # N.023.351.1

I just replaced it with an M6 bolt/lock nut.

(Looking back, I wish I replaced the pedal bushings that I had apart......... I lubricated everything, and it felt better for about a month..... brake pedal bushings #999.924.014.40, and clutch pedal bushings # 964.423.611.00, and you need 2 of each type)
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Old 05-17-2005, 08:33 PM
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Thanks Eric, I submitted a WORD document to my parts guy with all the PN you provided PLUS the PN for the heater blower motors up front - looks like I have my work cut out for me!

Thanks again, appreciate the info.
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Old 04-19-2009, 07:35 PM
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Same problem, the pin had worked itself out, removal of pedal assemly, careful hammering of pin, and back together, WOW, as good as new, thanks for the detailed description, thought the clutch had died, cheers
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Old 04-19-2009, 07:38 PM
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mine hadnt gone, but on inspection was broken...

I bolted it, as its all i had at the time, I have a new porsche roll pin to fit, but i've had no problems with the bolt...
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:11 PM
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You can get the pedal cluster out without having to undo the master cylinder from the line:





Out it comes:



and here is the little guy we want to get out



Punch it out:



New pin and bushings



Old pin out:



Now to remove the clutch pedal to get to the plastic bushings. Got to loosen this bolt.



Then you slide out the clutch pedal remove the center piece. Removing the plastic bushing is easy, just punch them out.



Press in the new ones:





Some plastic friendly grease and slide it all back in



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Old 04-19-2009, 10:56 PM
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Jaime,

Was your roll pin shot? It looks fine in the pick.

I've been trying to track down a shifting problem (difficulty getting out of gear and sometimes into 1st and 2nd at first startup when cold) and have purchased a new roll pin and bushing, but haven't put them in just yet. On visual inspection, as far as I can see without removing the pedal cluster, my roll pin appears to be okay.

Just curious about your experience. If it was preventative or required and what the result was.

Thanks,
Dave
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Old 04-20-2009, 12:09 AM
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I just went through this myself. My roll pin was shot but another component to my shifting difficulties was a leaking clutch master cyclider. These were conspiring to give me difficulty engaging first gear from a stop worm or cold and notch shifting. After having both changed everything works like a charm.
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Old 04-20-2009, 01:44 AM
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when this happened to me I just rebuilt the complete assembly
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Old 04-20-2009, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dfinnegan View Post
Jaime,

Was your roll pin shot? It looks fine in the pick.

I've been trying to track down a shifting problem (difficulty getting out of gear and sometimes into 1st and 2nd at first startup when cold) and have purchased a new roll pin and bushing, but haven't put them in just yet. On visual inspection, as far as I can see without removing the pedal cluster, my roll pin appears to be okay.

Just curious about your experience. If it was preventative or required and what the result was.

Thanks,
Dave
No. Mine was fine... but after going through the trouble of pulling all that out I just replaced it with the new one. Seems that at some point it was replaced along with one of the plastic bushing. I replaced both bushings and the pin. Like I said, mine were fine so it made not difference to pedal nor shifting feel .
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