9XI

If it is not an RS, I wonder why the factory called it that, why the title says RS and the VIN itself includes "RS." People "out there" seem to believe it is an RS based the price premium, despite the fact that it is a "stripper." I fully agree that it was quite a stretch for the Company to designate it an RS, but they did what they did. If the Company were being honest to themselves they would have called it a "Club Sport," and called the Carrera Cup car the "RS." What's done is done, however, and I don't understand why the debate continues over whether to second guess the Company's labelling. Makes zero sense to me.

Anyway, whatever it's called, the debate continues while we all drive and love our C2s, RSAs etc. It doesn't make much difference in the grand scheme.

Cupcar#12

the RSA is not an RS - there are many, many differences - a better way to think of the RSA is that is a factory delete option C2 -
current version of Bob Gagnon's article is located here @
www.carreracupusa.org

this also details the differences in the Cup cars (both types) the RS (again there are 2 types) the RSA and the C2

ltc

1. The factory never called it an RS. The Carrera RS existed long before the RSAmerica was thrown together by Porsche marketing/management.

2. The fact that the VIN says RS means nothing, except that it is a 1994 and it was built in Stuttgart:
(thanks to Keith V for the following):
The 10th digit is the model year where “P” = model year 1993 and “R” = model year 1994.
The 11th digit is always an “S” for RS Americas because it the plant of origin i.e. Stuttgart.

9XI

I do not understand a distinction between the marketing department of Porsche and the Company as a whole.

The Company made the decision to badge it an "RS," and market it to USA customers as an RS. Quote from Porsche 1993 brochure: "The RS America was designed by engineers whose ceaseless commitment is to create sports cars like the RS -- so they themselves may savor them." Elsewhere the caption reads "Creating a lighter, leaner RS." Again elsewhere it reads "The result, at under 3,000 pounds, the RS is the lightest of any new Porsche in the 1993 lineup."

Concurrent publications refer to it as a "renn sport" car. "The 911RS America -- a "Renn Sport" (Racing Sport) model for our market only -- is your basic Carrera 2 couple with a few notable additons and deletions." Car and Driver, November 1992, p. 75.

Excellence's August 1992 article announcing the RSA is riddled with references to the car as an RS, while noting that it is a stripper. It also reports (true or not) on the purported "idea" of the car: "The RS America boasts a fundamental honesty and clarity of purpose that returns this manufacturer to its racing roots. The idea at the inception of the RS was to clone a streetable copy of the Carrera Cup 911 for America." Excellence, August 1992, p. 57.

Take a look even at more internationally oriented publications. Sports Car International recognized the RS America as akin to a U.S. version of the European Carrera RS. "SCI readers will probably remember our test report of the Carrera RS in our December, 1991 issue. At the time, we said you can't have one in the U.S. ever. Well, that's only partly true. Porsche decided to bring in a lightened 911 afer all. The model is intended for the U.S. market only, and it's called the Porsche 911 Carrera RS America." The article is the most rigorous I've seen that adheres to the "RS America" moniker without slipping into calling it an RS. It's the most honest of the articles, telling readers to think of it as a "base model 911 or a 911 lightweight." Sports Car International, September 1992, p. 23.

We're going to have to live with the debate forever. However, there can be no doubt that the Company and the commentators at time thought of the RSA as an RS for the US market. The Company badged it that way and referred to it that way. There is no reason for us to substitute our judgment that it should be been called something else, like a "Club Sport."

ltc

9XI,
I can see that neither myself or Cupcar#12 are getting thru here , so I will just leave it at that and congratulate you on your purchse of a 1994 RS.

JasonAndreas

The technical workshop manuals refer to it as the "Carrera RS America"

Johan K

I guess it depends on what you mean by a "true RS". From Gagnons article it is evident that there are a lot of differences between the RSA and the Euro Carrera RS. In many aspects the RSA seems to resemble a regular C2 rather than the Carrera RS. And I guess that the Carrera RS is a true RS. Gagnon refers to the RSA as a "performance oriented lower cost alternative to the regular Carrera 2". Maybe that is a good description of the RSA. Just my two cents.

garrett376

Such a heated debate! Who knew!?!!

Love it!!!

Schuey

I agree, I was surprised when it had, power seats, sunroof, electric windows/locks, etc. not what I would consider a "lightweight" RS...

K964

With A/C, Sunroof, electric seats, and other creature comforts, my recently sold '94 RSA tipped the scale at around 2975 lbs, just around 50 lbs lighter than a comparable C2. Cool car/Great Marketing concept? Definitely. A true RS? No way.

Christer

My bog standard C2 also tips the scale at under 3000lbs with half a tank of fuel etc. - but you hit the nail on the head with your comment.

It is actually a very clever concept indeed. If BMW came out with a M3 CSL America (standard M3 with some options deleted) then they could also sell that low option car at a considerable premium. Its just preying on patriotism....

joey bagadonuts

Oh, this is nothing. We had an absolute blood bath a couple years ago on the very same topic. But it was also a pretty informative thread.

What's the big deal abour RS?

It appears Erick has softened some of his opinions over the last few years but regrettably, Christer's marketing theories remain unchanged. It's a pretty entertaining read for those who've been around a while.

ltc

http://www.performance2and4.co.uk/964rs_1_n.htm

"The 'European' RS was not going to be legal in America. Partly because of the lightweight features, the thinner glass and lack of side impact protection. Therefore in 1992 a special 'RS America' was developed for the US and Canadian markets.

The RS America was never intended as a racing version. In fact the key to understanding the nature of this car is that it was a stripped out 'cheaper' Carrera 2 as opposed to the homologation special nature of the 964RS.

It lost the Carrera 2's power steering, rear seats, some soundproofing, air conditioning and sunroof. It used the sports M030 suspension (available for the Carrera2) along with the regular 250hp motor and gearbox, the aluminium Cup wheels and a fixed rear spoiler, altogether saving around 70 kg's (about the same as a lightweight passenger). 240 RS America were sold to the end of 1992."

Surf Twang

I like mine, that's all I need to know.

RSAErick

Ah yes. I remember that thread well. That was less than a month after I bought my pride and joy RSA. I was such a proud RSA owner back then... before I was beaten into submission. I've learned a lot since then, and for the most part stay away from the persistent RSA vs. C2 threads.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that the differences between the two are not remarkable, for the most part. Certainly not as great as the differences between an RSA and a true RS. I have never driven an RS or Cup car , but I've driven several C2's. It's interesting to note that the biggest difference that I've noticed between the cars is the modification that I almost never hear about on C2's - manual steering. For those that haven't driven a manual steering 964, you're missing out on an amazing driving sensation. Honest.

But enough about our differences! I think that the emotion that these threads elicit, really just shows that we all love our cars very, very much. That's so cool!

Still, we bicker...
I think that some RSA owners (especially newer owners) believe that they own a superior model of 964, and that C2's are 'lesser' because they came with some luxury items attached. Ouch.

On the other hand, I think that some C2 guys are threatened by todays higher prices of the RSA's, and believe that they need to bring the RSA guys down to earth by refering to them as the "cheaper" versions. Double Ouch!

Some of this is ignorance. Some of this is pride.

But in both cases, there's no doubt that we just love our cars and will defend it's virtue to the death. See, we're not all that different after all!

LONG LIVE THE 964!!!