Tay

I'm a newbie to the forum, and I've been researching 964's with the idea of buying a Targa C2 to replace my '87 BMW 325is and a '74 Alfa Spider that has broken my heart (as well as my bank account). I'm kind of looking for a cross between the two.. but turned up a notch.

I have two questions -

First - what are the characteristics of the targa - does it still feel like a top down car, and does it buffet you at highway speeds like a top down car? How loud is it to drive?

Second - I've seen before with Boston Whalers that finding a good one always takes time, and they tend to get away before you get there, and they always sound better on the phone than in real life. Is the same true here? Do you ever find a good one right out of the gate?

I'm looking at what may be a one owner, dealer maintained 1990 C2 Targa with 85K miles. Body excellent, interior good but somewhat 'faded'. Does that sound like a keeper at $22K?

Thanks,

-Taylor

Lon

I own a 91 Targa. I always wanted a Targa when I was young and now I have the pleasure of owning one. I leave my top off 90% of the time. It defintley feels like a convertiable, but with the benefit of having a real glass window that doesnt fade crack or scratch. It has the Targa bar which provides a degree of saftey. Where it gives up some is in the track handling. It isnt as stiff as a coupe and therefor not a favorite of people who track their cars.
It is loud with the top off, but no more than a converitable. I do not get any buffeting. I got my 91 for 19k with 60k miles, but had to do a reseal right away. Do not buy the car without having a PPI done by a reputable Porsche shop. The 90 and 91 C2's were known for having bad oil leaks and not cheap to fix. If the car is already sorted and is in cherry shape the price sounds fair. I think you will love the 964, it is a very fun car to drive and pleasent to ride in as well.

Good Luck,

Lon

ebfox

Tay,

I have owned 2 Targas, a 1978 SC (which I owned for 16 years) and currently a 91 C2. I have never owned a regular convertible, so I can't compare noise levels, but I will tell you that it does get loud when you are running over 90mph with the top out (it also is a hoot). I live in Charlotte, NC so spring and fall are the only times I leave the top out.
The only complaint I have is that both Targas leaked (the 78 leaked like a sieve, the 91 drips lightly in heavy rain).
The concern I would have with the car you are looking at is the mileage and overall condition. I would not sell my car for less than $25k (58k miles, very good condition). Email me if interested.

E. B. Fox
91 C2 Targa- Red and Black

dsmyth

Taylor Ive had my 91C2 since spring and just love it. Make sure the seals are excellent around top and you wont be sorry. Buy the best you can afford because it will save you in the long run. There are lots of good folks willing to give good advise on any problems you might encounter along the way, Life is short but a 964 definitely helps. Doug

Tay

OK, I like these comments. Thanks.

Lon - A buyer's inspection was certainly on my must do list - I can't see spending that kind of money without one, and we have some excellent Porche shops in here in Seattle.

Its interesting you mention the track - one reason I want a Targa is that I would like to go to a lapping day once or maybe twice a year, and you can't do that in a cabriolet. I mostly interested in the interaction between me, the car and the road/track, I don't really care if anyone else is faster. Would I be correct in assuming that a targa is not so flexible that it would preclude going to the track once and a while? I suspect that a Targa pays the cabriolet weight penalty plus some, and so would be avoided by more dedicated track people from a weight standpoint alone.

Doug - life *is* short... my spouse was complaining about her age this morning, and when I suggested she could try my age instead (48) she suggested that she at least had the advantage of not being halfway through her life yet! Thanks a lot. Do you suppose she is condoning this Targa thing?

-Taylor

BostonU

Taylor,
I have owned my Targa for 1 year, and have always loved the 964. It is a great car, and runs great. I have done some upgrades to tighten it up. Some of them have been installing a Carerra cup strut brace, targa braces, HR springs, and Bilsteins. The car now handles totally different, and is pretty tight. Some 964 targa members don't see a difference in the targa braces, but I did. The noise level is great with the top off, and if you do some engine mods the exhaust note is awesome. I payed 20K for mine with 70K on the odometer. Good Luck,
Chris

Jay H

Taylor:

You can find a good 911 right out of the gate, but initially, you should look at as many 964's as you can. This way you can compare cars and learn what makes a good 911 verses a poor condition 911. When I bought my 964, it was the second car that I looked at (the first was a beat Tiptronic coupe that I wasn't really interested in anyway - but I took it for a spin anyway since it was at a dealership). Took me a bit to research the cars faults and assess if I wanted it, but I did eventually snap it up.

$22k sounds reasonable depending on your region and it's mechanical condition. The car is 14 years old with 85k on it, so there will be wear showing on the paint and interior (carpets, leather, etc.).

Good Luck,

Jay
90 964

bhensarl

Hi Taylor, welcome to the club!
Not sure how much you've looked into shops in Seattle yet, but John Walker's shop is very well respected and I would recommend him for any PPIs you might have done. You can check out his website:
http://www.johnwalkersworkshop.com/
(No affiliation, of course. )
P.S. How's the weather up there? I'm originally from Seattle, and living in FL in the summer sure does make me miss the NW!
Brian

Lon

I tracked my car just the other day at Willow Springs (big track) and it was awesome. My car is box stock and it held its own very well against some full out track cars. So I wouldnt worry about tracking for fun.

Lon

JoeW

I recently checked out a Targa which has been used on track for most of the past 5 or 6 years. Didn't buy it for reasons unrelated to the chassis config. I also know of several cabs that are tracked regularly, not to mention the entire fleet of Boxsters that go out!

Joe

leosayer

Hi Tay, I've owned my 1990 C2 Targa for 2 years. Definetely feels 'top-off' when you look up from the drivers seat, not the same if you look back of course due to the fixed window. Wind noise can be a serious problem with the roof on, depending on the condition of the roof. Roof off, at 100mph it sounds like a hurricane but there is very little buffeting, less so with the window up. Much less buffeting than any other convertible I've tried. 964's arent quiet, road noise can be bad on some surfaces and you'll hear and feel it when going over the bumps too, but cruising along, it's just fine and relatively subdued. Definetely recommended!

Tay

Now that I've driven one I can say that the wind and airflow handling in a Targa is excellent. It feels wide opened, but its by no means noisy or buffeting compared to other ragtops I've driven. Also, visibility is excellent - where most convertibles have a huge cloth 'c' pillar and a blind spot the size of an SUV, the Targa has nothing but glass, and the 'B' pillar lines up nicely with the passenger headrest.

One thing that put me off is the top - with an area that small, why use a cloth solution at all - it seems to me that a couple of insulated metal panels would do a much better job. Are there any aftermarket approaches to that?

I have a followup question - does anyone know what year the targa bar started being painted to match the body, or was it ever done that way?

andrew911

Tay- a bunch of things:
* I had 2 targas- a 1978 and a 1987. Now I have a 1993 C2 Cab. I loved the targas, but being as I don't use the car everyday I really wanted the full convertible- always loved the cabriolet, but couldn't afford one back when I bought the 1987, and when I bought the 1978 I definitely couldn't afford what would have been the cheapest used cab- a 1983 911sc (first year of the cab), being as I was only 16 at the time and saved for years for the $10K I paid for the '78

* My '78 leaked a little bit by the doors in the rain- not that bad though, and I simply kept a dish towel in the arm rest storage in the door...I'd actually wipe the rain, and dust the dash and car while I was at it....wasn't really a problem when driving, but when the car was outside overnight in the rain it would be a little bit more moisture. The '87 was a mint car that only had 30K miles on it when I bought it. That targa leaked only a little in the corners, and not any more even if left outside overnight.

* My next point is on the '87. The car was so mint, the targa top looked like it had never been folded. As a result, I never wanted to fold it and left it home- it was too tight to get behind the front seats without closing it and without marking up the seats. Because of that I was always looking at the weather to make sure it wasn't going to rain, and then I'd have to rush home to get the top. Now I know that sounds ****, but that's the way I was back then If the top has some "patina", I wouldn't have minded folding it- or if it was today I'd just fold it and if the condition got bad I'd simply get it re-done over time (many convertible shops can do this).

* Now that you've driven a 964 targa, I don't have to tell you that while it may not be as rock solid as a 964 coupe, it's pretty damn solid. In fact, it probably has less cowl shake than some other coupes from other car companies! Even compared to current convertibles, the 964 is tops. I had a ride in a brand new maserati spider which had way more cowl shake than my '93 cab or my targas ever had.

* I don't track, so that was never a concern of mine. But with the targa you get the best of both worlds- I would have to weld in a roll cage to get my car in the PCA events, and even then I'm not sure if I could get into all of them

* While major services like the re-seal may cost a lot, ownership isn't that bad. If you factor in depreciation once you buy it (minimal to none at this point), the total cost of ownership is way lower than a brand new car that depreciates 15% as soon as you drive it off the lot.

* I don't think the 964 targa bar was ever anything other than flat/krinkle black paint (unless special order, or after market). The really old targas had a brushed aluminum type, then they went to the flat black maybe in the mid-late 1970's. Maybe the black crinkle/flat paint it was an option at first in the 1970's? My 1978 had the black bar, but the original sales catelog I had bought at a Porsche show has the pictures with the silver/alumimum bar.

* My only complaint about the 964 is because I'm always working during the week or busy, I only drive it on the weekends or vacation and in the good weather and that's not enough to satisfy me . That's the best testiment I can give of the 964's excellent build/performance/fun/sound/feel etc. Oh...my wife let me get it and she loves going for drives in it!! Nor is she scared when I sometimes open it up.....just this weekend, hit 135mph with the top down when going for a ride with the guy in the maserati sypder on an open highway...kept up with him pretty good, and my wife had a blast (I don't do that too often, as I value my license

Jacks911

Tay,

Yours is the second question about Targas I have answered tonight - And welcome from Kirkland!
I have a Cab. Prior Porsche was a '76 Targa. Given the Seattle weather & the cost of maintaining a Cab - I might go back to a Targa myself some day. But I love the condition of my Cab and just paid for new top parts. Targas and Cabs by the way do not have any extra weight. Porsche quotes same weight for all three bodies. I think the Northwest is a good Targa area, and yes you can purchase several different fixed roof options for the Targa - expensive - but not much more than a new Cab roof! Targas are somewhat rare having less than about 15% of the total USA import for all 964s. And the 964 was the Last of this type of true "Targa".

I see you have already gotten the link to John Walker's shop & on the East side there is Chris's and Squire's. This is a great place for Porsches & the local PCA region - http://www.pnwr.org/ - has lots of fun stuff to do - so I hope you buy soon and enjoy the rest of summer. And - yes your '90 at $22 could be a keeper - Excellence quoted prices from $20 to $26 for '90 Targas in the Feb '04 pricing guide. Look forward to meeting you. PS; you're still young(er than me) and the 964 will keep you And your wife (selling point) from aging .... really!

dutchcrunch

hello, while reading paper for Louisiana found 1990 c2 targa with 59800 miles and new clutch for $ 17,000. Phone is 251 454 2444. if you talk with them and need someone to go look at it i can do this for you. maybe if you haggle you can get it for 15 ???? i can tell you car insurance is high in this state and most likely not everyone will be in the high performance sports car market. hope this helps. by the way i don,t know the seller.