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I had a 2008 997.1 GT3 and a 997.2 GT3, moved to a 991.1 GT3 and then to a 991.2 GT3 Touring. I also bought a 1990 964 C2 a year and half ago. Not really easy to compare the two but they are very different. Like many have said, the 964 does not need to be driven fast to enjoy it while GT cars want to be revved to redline.
I am probably in the minority but since this picture, I have sold the Touring. I daily a 2022 RS6 Avant and can drive warp speed in that…
Hiro
So basically all of us that have a GT3/964 setup have the same advice - if you have the means to do so, keep them both.
Also in reference to one of your original points, you really can DD a 964 year round if you want to. There's plenty of people on this board who do. As long as you keep it maintained, it'll perform just fine for you every day. Hell, these cars love to be driven and behave much better when they get regular exercise so you're probably better off if you CAN DD it. Just remember to keep an extra DME on hand.
I'm going to somewhat buck the trend and not recommend a 964 as your only other non DD car. Many people who have responded have BOTH a gt3 and a 964, but it doesn't sound like that's the direction you want to go.
If you're going to be putting serious mileage on the 964, that means serious maintenance. Yes, a modern water-cooled car will also need maintenance for 15k+ miles per year, however with a 964 you're dealing with parts that are ~20 years older compared to your 997.2. Depending on how well maintained the 964 you can find is, it's very possible your car will be out of commission for an extended time due to maintenance. Again, the same applies to a newer car, but parts availability is more scarce and things just break more on older cars.
Also, unless your daily is something quick like an M3, there will be a time when you miss the speed of your GT3, and it will be an itch you can't scratch.
I'm not saying you shouldn't get a 964, but unless you decide to keep your GT3 and sell whatever you currently daily (if you're trying to keep it at 2 cars max), I think you might be better served elsewhere.
All valid and awesome information I’m getting here guys.
I really enjoy the open discussion of what both cars bring to the table.
Never been a targa or convertible person myself, but I definitely see the appeal. Especially where I live in San Diego.
But I would still ideally look for a C2 coupe.
To clarify, I don’t really have to DD anything.
I walk to work, but on the weekends I’m out driving & about every 2-3 months I do a road trip for a few days.
Sold my Model 3 and bought an F30 just in case I need to move anything substantial or just need something a bit more practical on a day.
So the miles on the GT3 or potential 964 are almost are all leisure.
Having 2 “fun” cars has never worked well for me. I would never know which one to choose on a day so sure there could be some overlap, but if I picked up a 964 it would be a full replacement for the 997.
But definitely a fair point about the age of the car. Should be obvious but certainly not what popped into my head.
Seems like every car I get I acknowledge there’s an upfront cost after purchase so I do take that into consideration.
(Ie. Rod bearings and more on my past E46 and E92 M3s, engine out things on the 997, so no stranger to getting something dialed from the jump)
I don’t dislike anything about the car. I’ve just always wanted to experience what I can, while I can.
30th bday is coming up so the 964 could be my gift to myself
What a great conversation - I've been in a similar boat. I have driven the GT3, as well as several other modern performance oriented cars and builds. To mix things up - I've also owned 60's air cooled 911 (1968 911L). The 964, to date for me is my sweet spot. For some to simplify it into a "best mix of past and present" is such a giant understatement.
Do you guys remember the old Petrolicious, before it was nerfed? I felt that the production and language spoke to the generations now digging into these older air cooled cars. They featured all manner of PCars, and have created the closest (documentation wise) depiction of what it is like to experience one.
It isn't just a mix of old and new, every single interaction is sensory overload and an experience. Of all Porches, this 964 is an episode of Petrolicious every time. Garage door slowly raises, exposing the cool air of an early Sunday morning. . .birds, sleepy neighbors and a man walking his dog all begrudgingly stir in sequence to the rumble of the flat six. My thumb traces the outline of the Momo Prototipo as I click the analog light switch on... the headlights pierce the light fog. I slowly move my back side to side, feeling the cool leather through my t-shirt, noting how "held" I feel. Clutch engaged, I know the exactness and precision of the Rothsport shifter as I push the gear selector into 1st gear, click....and a little throttle to roll into the crisp morning.
While dramatic, I live it every time and there is nothing else that has come close to replicating it. I could go on, writing about the experience. It is something I look forward to all the time. It is why I check the weather for the upcoming weekend and why I love these cars - they give back and never disappoint.
Fun to read all these thoughtful responses. As one of the folks who "gave up" a 997 GT3 for the 964 I will reenforce the fun factor at sane speeds offered by the air cooled car. I am a former PCA/SCCA racer, Race Driver coach, etc. So I like fast But the 997 GT3 really felt slow a extra-legal++ speeds and made most corners a non-event unless roads were wet. I took mine to the track (PCA DEs), with track tires and pads. It did well enough in the Red group but was not a match for new GT3's or a well driven GT4. So a bit of a disappointment there for a competitive person like me. Decided that a dedicated track car would be a better option so on the hunt for one of those now. The 964 feels faster than it is going, and when you put your foot down still goes down the road and around corners pretty darn well and still feels like a rear engine car.
My first 964 (in the late 90's) was a 91 coupe in Amazon Green (yes, I should have never sold it, but other cars beckoned). I have fond memories of that car, which was a revelation compared to the G Body 911's I had owned before. Getting back into one this year didn't disappoint. I noted in my first post that the OP should look for the very best 964 they can find so there is less time getting it sorted and more time driving, unless you really enjoy that side of ownership (seems like you are more focused on the drive). They do need to be well sorted before piling on the miles after 30 years. The good news is that excellent examples are becoming more of the norm as the values have gone up, so the chances of getting a ready to drive example are better than in the past.
Now that you have let us know you are about to hit the big "30" I'm convinced you will have plenty of time to enjoy the modern Porsche lineup in your future. But getting into a "classic" is likely going to be more and more expensive as time goes on. Why not scratch that itch now "while you're young" and see what it is all about?
What a great conversation - I've been in a similar boat. I have driven the GT3, as well as several other modern performance oriented cars and builds. To mix things up - I've also owned 60's air cooled 911 (1968 911L). The 964, to date for me is my sweet spot. For some to simplify it into a "best mix of past and present" is such a giant understatement.
Do you guys remember the old Petrolicious, before it was nerfed? I felt that the production and language spoke to the generations now digging into these older air cooled cars. They featured all manner of PCars, and have created the closest (documentation wise) depiction of what it is like to experience one.
It isn't just a mix of old and new, every single interaction is sensory overload and an experience. Of all Porches, this 964 is an episode of Petrolicious every time. Garage door slowly raises, exposing the cool air of an early Sunday morning. . .birds, sleepy neighbors and a man walking his dog all begrudgingly stir in sequence to the rumble of the flat six. My thumb traces the outline of the Momo Prototipo as I click the analog light switch on... the headlights pierce the light fog. I slowly move my back side to side, feeling the cool leather through my t-shirt, noting how "held" I feel. Clutch engaged, I know the exactness and precision of the Rothsport shifter as I push the gear selector into 1st gear, click....and a little throttle to roll into the crisp morning.
While dramatic, I live it every time and there is nothing else that has come close to replicating it. I could go on, writing about the experience. It is something I look forward to all the time. It is why I check the weather for the upcoming weekend and why I love these cars - they give back and never disappoint.
Ok....now back to work. 964, 100%.
Oh man, you are making me want to get the beast out. Maybe I'll take the 964 to golf league today. Nothing like having your golf clubs sitting shotgun. lol
Having 2 “fun” cars has never worked well for me. I would never know which one to choose on a day so sure there could be some overlap, but if I picked up a 964 it would be a full replacement for the 997.
If it helps, I have 3 "fun" cars (964 C4, 993 Turbo, 991.1 GT3RS) and I reach for my 964 keys almost 100% of the time.
The 964, in my humble opinion, is simply the perfect 911.
If it helps, I have 3 "fun" cars (964 C4, 993 Turbo, 991.1 GT3RS) and I reach for my 964 keys almost 100% of the time.
The 964, in my humble opinion, is simply the perfect 911.
I find that very interesting. Between my 964 and my 993, my 993 is my default. I think part of that is their current values (964 C2 6spd with factory LSD, all original paint in special order color vs 993 that has been modified and has 120k on the odo), but to be frank I still prefer the 6 speed, added power, refinement, AND styling of the 993 over the 964. That said it's 90% the same car so it's splitting hairs in my book.
If my 993 was a turbo though, I would probably drive the 964 more as well.
OP if you're only 30, I 100000000% recommend you get some seat time in an aircooled car before you make any decisions. They are VERY different from anything you've likely ever driven.
I find that very interesting. Between my 964 and my 993, my 993 is my default. I think part of that is their current values (964 C2 6spd with factory LSD, all original paint in special order color vs 993 that has been modified and has 120k on the odo), but to be frank I still prefer the 6 speed, added power, refinement, AND styling of the 993 over the 964. That said it's 90% the same car so it's splitting hairs in my book.
OP if you're only 30, I 100000000% recommend you get some seat time in an aircooled car before you make any decisions. They are VERY different from anything you've likely ever driven.
Interesting point. I am also looking at 993s, but something about the narrow body just doesnt quite do it for me.
If the wide body cars didnt exist, I would be all for it. But seeing them side by side is a whole different thing.
Didnt want to throw the 993 stuff in here and convolute the conversation of the 964.
I imagine they are quite a different experience than the Porsches Ive had in the past, but luckily I have substantial seat time in some older stuff of all different makes. Mostly BMW though.
Originally Posted by nowata
Maybe an easier combination is a gt4 and 964. But if you can do a gt3 and a 964 then yeah!
Tried GT4 life. Great car but not personally for me.
If it helps, I have 3 "fun" cars (964 C4, 993 Turbo, 991.1 GT3RS) and I reach for my 964 keys almost 100% of the time.
The 964, in my humble opinion, is simply the perfect 911.
If you can only have one then which one would you keep? Owning both 964 C4 and 993TT now for a few years and I would not hesitate to keep the 3TT. Much more rare with enough speed to keep up with new stuff on Sun mornings retaining the old school charm. Excellent all in one package for the ages.
Originally Posted by Dubbed743
I find that very interesting. Between my 964 and my 993, my 993 is my default. I think part of that is their current values (964 C2 6spd with factory LSD, all original paint in special order color vs 993 that has been modified and has 120k on the odo), but to be frank I still prefer the 6 speed, added power, refinement, AND styling of the 993 over the 964. That said it's 90% the same car so it's splitting hairs in my book.
If my 993 was a turbo though, I would probably drive the 964 more as well.
OP if you're only 30, I 100000000% recommend you get some seat time in an aircooled car before you make any decisions. They are VERY different from anything you've likely ever driven.
Agreed. I probably drive the 964 more because I don't have to warm up and cool down the turbos and its AWD. My 3TT is RWD so driving season is much shorter than my 64 on all seasons..
Originally Posted by ljmartyre
Interesting point. I am also looking at 993s, but something about the narrow body just doesnt quite do it for me.
If the wide body cars didnt exist, I would be all for it. But seeing them side by side is a whole different thing.
Didnt want to throw the 993 stuff in here and convolute the conversation of the 964.
I imagine they are quite a different experience than the Porsches Ive had in the past, but luckily I have substantial seat time in some older stuff of all different makes. Mostly BMW though.
Tried GT4 life. Great car but not personally for me.
The 993 widebody market is crazy right now. I know of a cream puff blk/blk '98 C4S with 20K miles off market and owner probably want more than $170K. That being said, WB 993s are prettiest..
05-04-2022, 06:07 PM
Hmmm
But the 997 GT3 really felt slow a extra-legal++ speeds and made most corners a non-event unless roads were wet. I took mine to the track (PCA DEs), with track tires and pads. It did well enough in the Red group but was not a match for new GT3's or a well driven GT4. So a bit of a disappointment there for a competitive person like me. Decided that a dedicated track car would be a better option so on the hunt for one of those now. The 964 feels faster than it is going, and when you put your foot down still goes down the road and around corners pretty darn well and still feels like a rear engine car.
