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I have had a 997.2 GT3 for almost a year now.
The car is everything you could want and more.
As someone who is now on car #38, I have accepted the fact that I really do like trying new things.
Learning a new chassis, understanding its character, and living with it are all part of the experience for me.
That being said, I have never driven an air-cooled Porsche.
Whatever vehicle I have at the time seems to generally serve the same purpose:
- Southern California canyon driving
- Coastal road trips (sometimes inland)
- General purpose use when I feel like it; rain or shine.
- Little to no track time
My cars do tend to be modified, but often very lightly. Generally an OEM++ vibe.
GT3 currently has exhaust, suspension links, BBS E07, and Pole Positions.
I drive...a ton. Ive put about 15k miles on the GT3 in the last 10 or so months. Mostly road trips or weekend stints driving with friends, my lady or myself.
I acknowledge the 964 is a much older vehicle and therefore may not be ideal for the sort of regular use I tend to ask of my cars. (I do have a daily)
Short story long, I understand in an ideal world one would own both but 2 cars to myself is plenty for me.
Please share your thoughts on either car that you feel might be relevant.
I especially want to hear from the guys that drive a ton or have had/ do have both vehicles.
And if you happen to be local, maybe we can swap cars for a couple of minutes.
I stopped counting the cars at #50. The last two have been 997.1 GT3 and 964. However, this was my second 964 so I had an idea of what it would be like to get back in one (had one in the late 90’s), And most of my 911’s have been Air Cooled, but my other Porsches almost all been water cooled except the 914 a while back.
I also like to mode my cars a bit. 964 lends itself well to that (see Singer)
A 964 in excellent shape is very reliable for a 30 year old car. You can put lots of miles on them. They can be made to handle very well (see Singer again) and have just enough modern stuff to make them a great air cooled Porsche that still looks like the G Body classic. Coil Overs, ABS, G50 trans and so on. AC that works when well maintained, Pretty nice “modern” package for the air cooled 911. Stock they understeer a bit and the 4 WD version keeps doing that even after you make suspension mods. So I would suggest a C2 (2 wheel drive). Get one that has been kept very well or restored.
It’s so different than the GT3 - it would have been better to do these in reverse. But it is fun to drive and a lot more usable performance envelope on the street vs. the GT3. Def much more of a classic vibe but not too many compromises like reliability or chassis issues (it is still trailing arm rear suspension but I like that feel coming from the older cars).
I have a 996 GT3 and a 964 Targa. Given the option - as you suggested - I'm glad to have both. The 996 GT3 was a coupe only - no sunroof option. The Targa is an ideal open top air cooled. The only open top air cooled 911 allowed in stock form on the track in most PCA events. Not a great track car but a wonderful car at 50%+ of the GT3 pace. The ideal slow car to drive fast. But also a great car to drive slow through small towns, scenic routes, mountain passes, etc. The open top really puts you closer to your surroundings. The 996 GT3 is nearly the opposite end of the scale - similar to a 997 GT3 except you can get less help from the car when driving at the limits and the sunroof thing. If you insist on keeping only 1 911 you'd probably want a 964 coupe for the superior driving limit but one relaxed trip with the top off a Targa and you might become a 2 911 convert.
IMO, it comes down to - "Do you have to driving at a very high speed to have fun with the car?". I know some guys that are just "speed-junkies" and the 964 would not work for them. To me, I am near the opposite of that. I like to push the car some on back roads and you just can't do that with modern cars unless at least doubling the speed limit. Heck, my 22 Macan GTS is too fast for the street. You know the old saying, "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow". If you agree with that, I say give the 964 a shot! Good luck.
You should post this question in the 997gt3 forum as well...many have owned both or do own both.
I have owned both, and currently still own a 997.1 gt3 alongside a 993c2s. A 964 c2 coupe is likely the most fun you can have in a NA late model aircooled. Driving experience, I liked the 964>993. But at the end of the day, a 964 or 993 is incomparable to a 997 gt3. I'd keep my Gt3 over the 993...but it you've never experienced a 964, I'd vote sell the gt3 to experience the 964. Otherwise, you'll always be wondering
Have recently gone back to a 964 after 996 gt3 etc. My use is similar to yours , and agree with above posts. One thing i would say is that it can take a lot of work and patience to find a really good one , but will be worth the journey.
I have a 997.2 C4S and a 964 Targa. The C4S gets a lot of track time. The Targa is a weekend car. I don't think I have to explain why the Targa is the ideal car for California (I'm in Northern CA, Bay Area). From mid-April to maybe October the top stays in the garage and it's "cruising in the sun".
What are the big differences?
Well the sound - of course - nothing else sounds like an aircooled Porsche. Before I bought mine I always tried to imagine how it will sound when I drive MY 964 and it sounds exactly as great as I imagined.
The car is so much smaller on the inside than my 997, it's more like a Miata inside
The steering is very heavy
The brakes are - hmmmm - strange, there is about almost 1/2 inch of pedal travel where you think the brakes should engage, before the brakes actually engage, you get used to it. They work well, they just engage differently
In my Targa, the view from the back is perfect, no blindspots
If you buy a Targa with original lights, they are garbage, you will throw a shadow at night, but there are good aftermarket solution
They will leak oil, if someone tells you their car doesn't leak, then they are very optimistic.
For me it's a bit like a time machine, you get in the car, you know it's 30 years old and you change your attitude (in a very good way) and have fun.
Overall: I am super-happy that I pulled the trigger 3 years ago, when these cars were still affordable and I enjoy the car with all it's quirks & features.
Currently own both ...997.1 GT3 RS since 2014 and 964 since 2016.
I absolutely love my 964. It's very fun to drive at any speed. It's small, its analog, the steering is heavy but very communicative, and the sound is great ...exhaust is not stock. However, the AC sucks, which is understandable ...and although my car is very well sorted and have had very few issues, its not a car I would want to drive 10k plus miles per year.
As much as I love my 964, I love my 997 RS even more. If I had to choose one, it would easily be the 997. I'm sure you would enjoy the experience, but it wouldn't surprise me if you missed the GT3.
Wow.. when I saw the subject line I couldn’t wait to dive into this thread. I have not owned a 997 GT3, but I was looking to buy one and in the end I bought an 93 RS America. I already have a 991 GTS which I kept and added the 964 instead of the 997 GT3. My decision in the end came down to the 997 being too similar to the 991 generation compared to the air cooled more analog 964. I love driving the RS America which is essentially a slightly more analog 964 (tad lighter, manual rack, fixed spoiler and more spartan interior with no rear seats). The smell, sound, feed back is so different to my 991 so I love the contrast. When I bought it I drove it home 700miles in a straight shot. Even with the hard bilstein struts it was actually pretty comfortable, I love the cloth sport seats. However if I had to pick only one generation then I would probably go with the 997, hopefully I am not upsetting anyone. After experiencing the 964 and the 991 I feel that the 997 would be a good blend, more capable handling, great sound and still keeping some of the analog feel. Not that I buy my cars as investments but I think both generations are excellent choices.
Last edited by Ecosse911; May 4, 2022 at 02:13 AM.
I didn't want to respond too soon so that I could get a few opinions rolling.
Really appreciate you guys taking the time to give your thoughts!
Ultimately this is just an exercise to see how people feel toward these subjective vehicles and maybe see if theres some things here and there that I might be missing or should further contemplate before making the move. It does seem lateral in a lot of ways and some not of course.
Its not easy to get some seat time in a well sorted or better yet dialed 964 nowadays but I think thats the next step here.
I have a 991.2 GT3 and a 1990 964, so it's kinda similar to what you asked.
They're just VERY different cars in every sense of the word. I love them both and wouldn't want to get rid of either one. I DD both of them (just choose how I feel that day I guess) and they actually both do a pretty great job of it.
The GT3, when you're pushing it in a canyon or on a racetrack is just on such a different level that they can't even be compared. But in order to really enjoy it, you need to push it pretty hard and well outside the boundaries of posted limits. It's still fun for little bursts in a commute too but those opportunities are somewhat limited.
The 964 you can push it at much lower levels and much closer to the "legal" side. It's still an incredible performing car (especially with proper coilovers, etc) but it doesn't need to be up over 8k to really feel alive. If I'm just cruising around, the 964 is probably more enjoyable 90% of the time. Mine is also a cabriolet so I drive it top down just to enjoy the world around me, whereas in the GT3 you are cocooned in it and more isolated feeling.
We have had 997.2 GT3, slightly modified, for about 4 years now. Just a few months ago we got a 964 C4. The C4 was the second air cooled car for me second to my 83 Rabbit GTI (first car ever) . Each car makes it's own sounds and smells, as others have said they are different and that's what is so great. I feel like I am going fast in the 964 when I am not which is fun. GT3 can be scary, I like that too. I don't have far to commute at all, I like the 964 a lot more than the gt3 for poking around town and going to work on occasion. If I had to pick one for canyons I'd pick the GT3, but there's no shortage of fun in the 964 in the canyons either, just different. Do you have ability to have both for a time period before you offload the GT3? I sold an E46 M3 to make physical room for the GT3. Now we have room and I miss the M3 a bunch. Good luck!
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997.2 GT3 to 964
. Each car makes it's own sounds and smells, as others have said they are different and that's what is so great. I feel like I am going fast in the 964 when I am not which is fun. GT3 can be scary, I like that too. I don't have far to commute at all, I like the 964 a lot more than the gt3 for poking around town and going to work on occasion. If I had to pick one for canyons I'd pick the GT3, but there's no shortage of fun in the 964 in the canyons either, just different. Do you have ability to have both for a time period before you offload the GT3? I sold an E46 M3 to make physical room for the GT3. Now we have room and I miss the M3 a bunch. Good luck!
