heliolps2

Hey everyone,

On my journey to making my 965 steering feel more responsive, and feel more like my G body 1974, 911S, I was thinking I needed to go with something like Elephant Racing Bumpo steer correction kit and or the 993 GT2 uprights if I lowered to or near 964 RS spec. But that got me thinking, If the 964 RS and the 92 964 Turbo S is at 125 mm ride height in the front and has the same parts las the stock 965. Do I really have to make any changes?

I have been doing some research on the 964 RS vs 1992 Turbo S and the 965 suspensions, from what I can tell, both the 965 and the RS have some of the parts, like the same uprights and brakes including the electric hydraulic brake system. and the same tie rods but shorter. The 964 RS has manual rack and stiffer springs and adjustable sway bars, The stock front height for the 964 RS and the 1992 Turbo S is 125mm and the stock 965 front height is 165mm, Also the noticed that all the 964 models use the rubber joint tie rods except for the 964 RSR.

I have set my front ride height at 130mm, just 5mm higher, a touch over RS spec, I don't fell much bump steer. But I have noticed that when I set my toe to 1/32nd - 1/16th total toe-in, with a full tank of fuel and when the tank is near empty the toe measured out to be 1/8th total toe. seems there should be a little bump steer, but not noticeable on the road, I do my own alignment at home with metal plates.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but as long as we don't go below 125 mm in the front, there no need to worry about changing to 993 GT2 upright or bump steer correction kits?

Here's what I've done to my 1992 965, to improve the feeling at the wheel.
Front 225/40/18 Rear 295/30/18
Eibach Pro progressive springs, Same
Bilstein B6 Sport struts, Bilstein B6 Sport Shock
Ploy/kevlar steering rack bushings Adjustable swaybar drop links ( next )
Steering rack brace.

I will say it feels better than stock. But not as good as my G body 911 with turbo tie rods. Oh, **** that right, that what I'm missing Turbo tie rods, with mono ball style inners like what came stock on the 930's. Doing some research you could buy the 964 RSR tie rods, but they NLA. But FVD has them available for 964 narrow body and 964 widebody/965. I'm certain that these mono ball tie rods will make a world of difference any 964/965. Who would think that the 965/ 964 RS would use the same tie rods and the NB 964 cars, I assumed the "Turbo Monoball tie rods" were carried over from the 930's to the 964 Turbo's.

Back in the day, the first Mod you did on your G body 911 was installing Turbo tierods, I guess it should be the same for the 964/965 cars as well.

I placed the order with FVD, they arrive from Germany next week,
https://www.fvd.net/us-en/9653470320...ner-outer.html
https://www.fvd.net/us-en/9643470320...ner-outer.html

Peteinjp

I bought the elephant tie rods for this very reason- solid inners. For me at RS height the bump steer correction is also welcome. I have driven BMW 2002's until I got the 964 and I found the car in general very vague - yet capable. I'm still getting used to it a year later.


Pete

Mikke_Possu

I've been using these FVD ones more than a year. As a change so many other components as well on same time, I can't say how they change your car. However, can't complain so far.

Bruni

On 965, if your side member are in outer position, these might be too short. These are for NB.
If you want to improve the steering feeling, better to have GT2 uprights and GT2 steering arms.


Here is mine.

budge96

Helios while adding the straighter outers and and a bump steer kit will help I would also change the inners as well the 993 has a solid rubber
inner instead of the coupled ujoint of the 964/965 .
within the range you mentioned you should be fine but the upright you have will not fit that tie rod without a bump steer kit ..
just an FYI ..haha
hey question have you been to Katie's this year .? Let me know thanks Bert

heliolps2

I loved your set up, since I'm not below 125mm RS spec I should be fine. Barely. FVD makes two, one for the Narrow body 964 and for widebody 964/965.

Thx for the reply

heliolps2

Hey Bert
I've been there a couple of times this year, before all the COVID-19, Hopefully, we can get out there this year, I hope you're well?

I think I should be fine because I'm above the RS spec height, The FVD complete monoball tierod should work. Porsche used the stock setup on the 1992 964 RS as well as the 965 Turbo S Light. at 125MM ride height.

Call me some time and we can talk about it.

Helio

Spokes

I am at RS height +/- 2mm. I have completely rebuilt the suspension. I used FVD monoball & tie rods. Most of my driving is on B roads (I am rural based). I don't experience any bump steer. I did try to install the Bump Steer Kit and it wouldn't fit a '89 964. And there are others who have struggled with the adjustment the bump steer kit offers. That said there are others who have had a good experience. Just a warning.

heliolps2

I feel that same, I'm sticking with the FVD monoball 965 turbo rods. There may be a use for the bump steer kit if your 964/993 is really low and under the RS spec. How do you like the feel of the monoball rods over stock rods?

Spokes

The steering is very smooth with the front end rebuild. I can’t narrow it down to any one component as I renewed everything except the steering rack itself. After I rebuilt the front and rear suspension I spent a lot of time on DIY alignment. A good alignment is key after a rebuild.

heliolps2

Update,

My 12-year son and I just removed the tie rods, Before that, I measured the degree of the tie rod with the suspension fully compressed with 3/4 tank of fuel. It was -3 degrees down towards the wheel. which I feel is ideal for no bump steer, ride height set at RS spec 125+5mm, Removal went fairly easy, no need to remove the strut. One of the outer rods felt tight the other felt a little looser, the rubber U joint felt super stiff on the inner rods.

The new FVD rods have square nut - ball that screws into the rack that looks like the factory stops, see pic, which is the same shape as the steering stop. not sure if I need to re-install those or not. any thoughts

Spokes

You do need to re-install the steering stop nut. Ideally 5mm between the tie rod nut and steering stop locking nut. See picture below...

heliolps2

Thank you for the reply, and the information, Great pic as well. This why I love the Porsche community. Stay well sir

Helio

-nick

Where does the 5mm spec come from? The distance between the inner tie rod ball pivot, and the steering rack has an overall effect on the geometry. I haven’t played with this, I just set the distance to the same as the stock rod pivot to rack distance. Measuring bump steer at different inner pivot distances would be interesting. Though Porsche’s spec may already be at the best compromise position.

The angle of the tie rod on its own doesn’t matter. The difference and interaction between the steering arm pivots and angles and the control arm pivots and angles are what effect bump steer. Look for a drawing and it should become more obvious.

The monoball inner tie rods are a nice upgrade. They make the steering feel a little more precise with no downside. Same change in feel as when switching a g-body model to turbo tie rods.