To 964, or not to 964...
01-22-2004, 01:34 PM
#17
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I got all defensive about the C4 and forgot to take a step back....
A 964 is a special type of car. If you just want a cheap and reliable 911, and you can do stuff yourself to fix it, get a vintage 911: no smog, no inspections, dirt cheap to tune, good gas mileage, reliable as heck, and parts are so cheap because there are so many junked early 911's that parts are quite easy to come by. My 1965 911, even though I race it, is dirt cheap. So simple to maintain, and extremely reliable even though it is 5 days from being 39 years old!!!! Happy Birthday!!!
BUT! If you want a reliable 911 that you can feel safe in, that's a different story. I got my 964 - a C4 cabrio because I wanted a newer, safer car to take care of me in my daily driving to work with the crazy So. Cal drivers. I wanted airbags, a seatbelt that didn't have 5-points to it, good brakes, a heater that doesn't make me smell like burnt oil, 5mph bumpers that can withstand ignorant people's methods of parking, galvanized body that wont rust on rainy days. My 65 911 is just too light, no airbags (although full cage), no AC, no sunroof (hence the cabrio purchase)...
I got a 964 because I wanted a newer 911 to provide those things mentioned above, and MOST of all, I wanted a 964. I feel it's the best body style out there since it looks like a modern 911 - the newer ones stink. Fortunately, it's also damn fast, and very fun to drive while including all my safety/comfort requirements. And, yes, it does cost more than other 911's to buy and maintain(I only have a 1965 as a reference) but it's not that much more. And at $25-30000 for a good one, that's a deal on such a super fast, good looking, fun to drive, car!
Bottom line, if you want a cheap 911, the 964 is not the cheapest. But if you want a 964, a 964 is the best!
A 964 is a special type of car. If you just want a cheap and reliable 911, and you can do stuff yourself to fix it, get a vintage 911: no smog, no inspections, dirt cheap to tune, good gas mileage, reliable as heck, and parts are so cheap because there are so many junked early 911's that parts are quite easy to come by. My 1965 911, even though I race it, is dirt cheap. So simple to maintain, and extremely reliable even though it is 5 days from being 39 years old!!!! Happy Birthday!!!
BUT! If you want a reliable 911 that you can feel safe in, that's a different story. I got my 964 - a C4 cabrio because I wanted a newer, safer car to take care of me in my daily driving to work with the crazy So. Cal drivers. I wanted airbags, a seatbelt that didn't have 5-points to it, good brakes, a heater that doesn't make me smell like burnt oil, 5mph bumpers that can withstand ignorant people's methods of parking, galvanized body that wont rust on rainy days. My 65 911 is just too light, no airbags (although full cage), no AC, no sunroof (hence the cabrio purchase)...
I got a 964 because I wanted a newer 911 to provide those things mentioned above, and MOST of all, I wanted a 964. I feel it's the best body style out there since it looks like a modern 911 - the newer ones stink. Fortunately, it's also damn fast, and very fun to drive while including all my safety/comfort requirements. And, yes, it does cost more than other 911's to buy and maintain(I only have a 1965 as a reference) but it's not that much more. And at $25-30000 for a good one, that's a deal on such a super fast, good looking, fun to drive, car!
Bottom line, if you want a cheap 911, the 964 is not the cheapest. But if you want a 964, a 964 is the best!
01-25-2004, 03:43 PM
#19
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Adam
I have had a Audi TT...very nice and plenty quick enough and a comfortable mile eater. Beautiful ergonmics with the switches in the right spot and those gorgeous airflows!! But I have just completed a 6 month search for a 964....and am just enjoying driving again.....looking forward to it indeed
Sure its not going to be the easy start every cold morning like the TT and you will be driven insane by the total lack of thought that went in to putting the switches, and it won't feel anything like the TT and you may feel that below 4000 r.p.m. the 964 wouldn't blow the TT away...the turning circle is abysmal and the ride so hard you can feel the cigarette packet you just drove over as it loosens your fillings... but the Porsche just feels FANTASTIC...70m.p.h. in the 964 feels like you are driving...it is connected to the road and you can feel everything.
Costs.....look look and look some more...don't worry about mileage....a good specialist can take one apart, put all the nuts and bolts in a bin and rebuild it without a handbook. Parts will be available forever. If you buy pre 92, the dual mass flywheel needs to be replaced, a top end rebuild and ditributor vent needs to have been done. Get rid of the Cat exhaust (and save some weight).
$1500 per year should be plenty to keep it performing.
Just remember one subscriber her uses the strap line "If it ain't broke it soon will be" which is pretty true...not to say the 964 is unreliable but old cars are not like 2 year old Audi TT's....you just don't seem to mind with a 964.
So go on.....Buy a nice one and start enjoying driving again.
Oh I went for a C4 and it feels like cornering on rails....every bit like the TT
Richard
I have had a Audi TT...very nice and plenty quick enough and a comfortable mile eater. Beautiful ergonmics with the switches in the right spot and those gorgeous airflows!! But I have just completed a 6 month search for a 964....and am just enjoying driving again.....looking forward to it indeed
Sure its not going to be the easy start every cold morning like the TT and you will be driven insane by the total lack of thought that went in to putting the switches, and it won't feel anything like the TT and you may feel that below 4000 r.p.m. the 964 wouldn't blow the TT away...the turning circle is abysmal and the ride so hard you can feel the cigarette packet you just drove over as it loosens your fillings... but the Porsche just feels FANTASTIC...70m.p.h. in the 964 feels like you are driving...it is connected to the road and you can feel everything.
Costs.....look look and look some more...don't worry about mileage....a good specialist can take one apart, put all the nuts and bolts in a bin and rebuild it without a handbook. Parts will be available forever. If you buy pre 92, the dual mass flywheel needs to be replaced, a top end rebuild and ditributor vent needs to have been done. Get rid of the Cat exhaust (and save some weight).
$1500 per year should be plenty to keep it performing.
Just remember one subscriber her uses the strap line "If it ain't broke it soon will be" which is pretty true...not to say the 964 is unreliable but old cars are not like 2 year old Audi TT's....you just don't seem to mind with a 964.
So go on.....Buy a nice one and start enjoying driving again.
Oh I went for a C4 and it feels like cornering on rails....every bit like the TT
Richard
01-25-2004, 05:46 PM
#20
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Originally posted by richardheggie
... the ride so hard you can feel the cigarette packet you just drove over as it loosens your fillings...
... the ride so hard you can feel the cigarette packet you just drove over as it loosens your fillings...
My C4 feels like a Cadillac compared to my 65 911!
01-25-2004, 06:40 PM
#21
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Adam...welcome to the list...
Either way you look at it you are on the verge of making a good decision by purchasing a 964...they are wonderful cars. Though we all want to do everything we can to make our next purchase perfect...there's no guarantee. obviously, your research on records and previous maintenance habits will be your saving grace. Buying someone else's bad habits or laziness will prove to be a far more costly mistake than trying to find the least expensive car you can find within reasonable limits.
If you are planning on a 964 as something that you may own a long time, consider the total cost of ownership over time and try not to get caught up on initial price. I am on my 3rd Porsche and have never experienced the unexpected. However, I may have been willing to pay a little more to have all the history I could. On a total ownership basis, I spend much less than someone who might be satisfied with a lower cost of entry. Unexpected costs on a car your not totally in love with will leave a far lasting impression than possible spending a couple thousand more up front.
Great cars with decent milage and a full history are more rare than those without.
I live in Minneapolis and drive year round in a similar climate. The C4 is absolutely awesome in this weather and you will not be disappointed should this be your choice. The C2 will be trickier and you will definitely need perfect timing with your snow tires.
Hope that helps!
Either way you look at it you are on the verge of making a good decision by purchasing a 964...they are wonderful cars. Though we all want to do everything we can to make our next purchase perfect...there's no guarantee. obviously, your research on records and previous maintenance habits will be your saving grace. Buying someone else's bad habits or laziness will prove to be a far more costly mistake than trying to find the least expensive car you can find within reasonable limits.
If you are planning on a 964 as something that you may own a long time, consider the total cost of ownership over time and try not to get caught up on initial price. I am on my 3rd Porsche and have never experienced the unexpected. However, I may have been willing to pay a little more to have all the history I could. On a total ownership basis, I spend much less than someone who might be satisfied with a lower cost of entry. Unexpected costs on a car your not totally in love with will leave a far lasting impression than possible spending a couple thousand more up front.
Great cars with decent milage and a full history are more rare than those without.
I live in Minneapolis and drive year round in a similar climate. The C4 is absolutely awesome in this weather and you will not be disappointed should this be your choice. The C2 will be trickier and you will definitely need perfect timing with your snow tires.
Hope that helps!
