HELP: 964 Engine Mods
07-05-2018, 03:11 PM
#16
Drifting
+2, I just did a suspension refresh with new coilovers, top hats, control arm bushings, and ball joints and the car feels incredible. I also replaced the small OEM rear calipers with a pair of rear 993 C2S calipers for better braking. I am very happy with the results.
07-05-2018, 04:19 PM
#17
Race Car
Not to mention...50lbs of weight loss can be had for free. If added hp and better handling is the goal...weight loss and suspension first.
If you haven't read the suspension madness thread, there is some good basic information in there...and then on some of the other build threads, like spyrex's thread, there is some higher-end suspension info if you want to go a step further. But again, the more you do yourself, the more you will save. And for the most part, suspension work is all pretty much bolt on bolt off, so feel free to dive in there and pay someone else to align the car when you are done.
If you haven't read the suspension madness thread, there is some good basic information in there...and then on some of the other build threads, like spyrex's thread, there is some higher-end suspension info if you want to go a step further. But again, the more you do yourself, the more you will save. And for the most part, suspension work is all pretty much bolt on bolt off, so feel free to dive in there and pay someone else to align the car when you are done.
07-05-2018, 05:20 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
I'm not really a horsepower guy, especially for a car that's mostly used on the streets and canyons. For for me, a great chassis with reduced weight is a lot more fun. Its why I started there.
And Goughary is right, suspension assembly is not hard (time is my issue, why I have others do the work..., not lack of skill or desire), getting it setup right is as much art as science. There are some tough bits, like removing the existing bushings in suspension components (A arms and swing arm an an SOB. Fire, heat, drills, etc).
Sort of depends on what your end game is. For me, I wanted an air cooled canyon carver with AC :-)
And Goughary is right, suspension assembly is not hard (time is my issue, why I have others do the work..., not lack of skill or desire), getting it setup right is as much art as science. There are some tough bits, like removing the existing bushings in suspension components (A arms and swing arm an an SOB. Fire, heat, drills, etc).
Sort of depends on what your end game is. For me, I wanted an air cooled canyon carver with AC :-)
07-05-2018, 10:38 PM
#19
Race Car
Fair- but keep in mind on the bushings that elephant charges very little to press in and refurb the front control arms..so even that, done on your own...can be had cheap...their sport bushings are a no brainer upgrade. SO much better and zero noticeable increase in harshness. Massive increase in tightness up front.
Loving this thread. Can't wait to see what you get up to w the mods...how about some pics of the car...
Loving this thread. Can't wait to see what you get up to w the mods...how about some pics of the car...
07-05-2018, 11:47 PM
#21
Drifting
Fair- but keep in mind on the bushings that elephant charges very little to press in and refurb the front control arms..so even that, done on your own...can be had cheap...their sport bushings are a no brainer upgrade. SO much better and zero noticeable increase in harshness. Massive increase in tightness up front.
07-06-2018, 09:10 AM
#24
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Good luck with the import and post more pics when you get it stateside.
07-06-2018, 09:43 AM
#25
Race Car
That's a good one- 400 per 1 hp...
I think Adrian likely posted that back when he was active in the community...which was quite a while ago. Honestly i get the point, so i don't mean for this to come off as argumentative...cuz it's not...
But to add some color, we are in the middle of an engine build at the moment, where we may end up a bit over 300, could be 320hp...but in all likelihood, at the wheels, we are talking about, for sake of argument...300. So a 53hp gain over stock.
53 hp at 400 per is 21,200 dollars. Maybe one could achieve 53 hp without all the work we are doing...so granted there may be cheaper horses in the realm of possibility. But this motor is going to cost significantly more than 21k.
You don't just polish a turd and expect it to be a golden egg. So in this case - and as with most of us- you take a sadly worn, sometimes worn out, motor that has seen better days, and if you are going for real hp gain...you more or less, keep the block, and everything else changes. It's not about "tossing in some cams". You try to keep as many parts as you can and just refurb and clean them up...but the whole while you are in there...if you go with it...you end up realizing that you have a 30 year old motor that can be a lot better, by making it a new and newly redesigned motor...
This is why when mine came out- my decision was to keep it almost 100% stock. The changes we made were for reliability- not hp gain. So we used steve weiner for the heads. And did upgraded valve guides, 993 valves, aesco springs and ti retainers...and pretty much that was the mod. A bit of a lighter valve train. Done.
All that said. If i had 80k to put into my car...I'd build a proper motor with it. But that's because I'm nuts. It would be cheaper to buy a wrecked 993 and swap the motor in for the same hp gain, and then I'd have a 964 motor to sell and parts from the 993...i'd end up with 300+ hp for almost free.
Hmmmmmm
I think Adrian likely posted that back when he was active in the community...which was quite a while ago. Honestly i get the point, so i don't mean for this to come off as argumentative...cuz it's not...
But to add some color, we are in the middle of an engine build at the moment, where we may end up a bit over 300, could be 320hp...but in all likelihood, at the wheels, we are talking about, for sake of argument...300. So a 53hp gain over stock.
53 hp at 400 per is 21,200 dollars. Maybe one could achieve 53 hp without all the work we are doing...so granted there may be cheaper horses in the realm of possibility. But this motor is going to cost significantly more than 21k.
You don't just polish a turd and expect it to be a golden egg. So in this case - and as with most of us- you take a sadly worn, sometimes worn out, motor that has seen better days, and if you are going for real hp gain...you more or less, keep the block, and everything else changes. It's not about "tossing in some cams". You try to keep as many parts as you can and just refurb and clean them up...but the whole while you are in there...if you go with it...you end up realizing that you have a 30 year old motor that can be a lot better, by making it a new and newly redesigned motor...
This is why when mine came out- my decision was to keep it almost 100% stock. The changes we made were for reliability- not hp gain. So we used steve weiner for the heads. And did upgraded valve guides, 993 valves, aesco springs and ti retainers...and pretty much that was the mod. A bit of a lighter valve train. Done.
All that said. If i had 80k to put into my car...I'd build a proper motor with it. But that's because I'm nuts. It would be cheaper to buy a wrecked 993 and swap the motor in for the same hp gain, and then I'd have a 964 motor to sell and parts from the 993...i'd end up with 300+ hp for almost free.
Hmmmmmm
07-06-2018, 11:16 AM
#27
Race Car
Dawes Motorsport is designing and building the motor. So if/when they dyno it- likelihood is it'll be in PA close to their shop...so it's not too far. Are you back up here now Jason ? Or still in the islands?
07-06-2018, 11:17 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
Wait, given the import pics, have you even driven the car yet or any 964? Are you buying it knowing it needs engine work?
If not, get some miles under your belt first. These cars are different (better) then anything else out there. Enjoy getting to know the car and it’s awesome dynamics, then start honing the experience. Marine Blue said it best.
A 964, or any 911, makes you want to be a better driver, at all speeds. Enjoy getting to know the car, we are the weak link in this equation. You can easily spend a lifetime wanting to be a better driver in a 911. It’s an endlessly fun and challenging project.
If not, get some miles under your belt first. These cars are different (better) then anything else out there. Enjoy getting to know the car and it’s awesome dynamics, then start honing the experience. Marine Blue said it best.
A 964, or any 911, makes you want to be a better driver, at all speeds. Enjoy getting to know the car, we are the weak link in this equation. You can easily spend a lifetime wanting to be a better driver in a 911. It’s an endlessly fun and challenging project.
07-06-2018, 11:39 AM
#29
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'll be back from August through mid-to-late-October, depending on the hurricane season this year.
07-06-2018, 11:55 AM
#30
Race Car
Well that's good! Cuz the car hopefully will be on the road by then. And should be a pretty special bit of design work.
Anyway don't want to hi-jack this thread. Shoot me a pm end of summer.
Anyway don't want to hi-jack this thread. Shoot me a pm end of summer.