tonyc

After my spin a couple of weeks ago. The bumber and left wing were scratched. My mechanic has suggested an entire respray removing a little rust under the rear window and a few door dings etc. I was hoping that the respraying could be done just in the areas that require it. I assume matching colours is difficult.

Having the car resprayed, will it affect it's resale value should I want to sell it one day?
And, can a good body shop match the rich glossy paintwork the factory produces?

Expensive start to the New Year! Ouch.

Thanks
Tony
Slate Grey '90 C2

Adrian

Dear Tony,
Yes a respray of any auto reduces its reasale value. Cannot be helped, it shows a problem, ie: accident occurred and an accident damaged vehicle is always less valuable than one in original good accident free condition.
By how much depends upon the market and the rarity of the vehicle. A very rare fully restored 911 RS for instance is worth a huge amount of money but if you found one in original good unrestored condition it would be worth a kings ransom.
Yes you can get a good paint job done, as good if not better than Porsche ever did it.
It all comes down to price. You get what you pay for. Make sure they clear coat it properly.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Jeff Curtis

Yes, I would answer that question TOTALLY depending on what the quality of the respray is.

As for MY 964, I think it's barely worth the price of a Yugo at the moment.

Truth be told, I'm not that happy with my respray, but the shop has offered to redo most of the car, after stripping it by hand...that is on hold for the moment while I ding it up a bit more on the track with Racing and DE weekends.

I would not say a respray would hurt the value, as a definitive statement...but again, I think it really depends on the quality of the work done. Just because a car has been repainted does NOT mean it has been wrecked or had problems...some of our fellow 964 owners that are clad in Red, may have it redone because of fading, as one person that on here jokes that his car is "Guards Pink".

On the other hand, difficult colors to match like ANY metallic silver, white and some of the rare colors, say Amazon Green, I am not a big fan of "panel painting". Say you fix a ding in the door, and only get the door resprayed, it's VERY difficult to make it so it's not noticeable.

Often you will see a red 944 that has been repainted on a front fender or rear quarter, there are a few here locally, and it's quite OBVIOUS...that would drive me NUTS!

All in all, a person will do what their budget allows...but do consider how long you're going to keep the car, what you're doing to do with it and the overall quality you may end up with depending on the shop, the materials they use and the skills they possess.

warmfuzzies

Tony,

I've had mine done (rust etc) and know that there could be problems as most people will be suspicious about accident damage, I'm not due to replace my car for a while so will take the hit on it, which should'nt be great if the purchaser understands any of the issues regularly discussed here.
But, I feel happier in myself knowing the car looks great, and that's enough for me.

Kevin

Arjan B.

I think it depends what Jeff also said, the quality of the paint work.

You never find a 964 [or other car of those years] without stone chips. So, either the car's are never dirven and always in the garage, or repainted on different spots. So what.... if it's done good, then it's even better for the car.

Mine is goning in for the paint of the roof and front and rear window pillars monday. The damnn Italians painted the both rear fenders once for stone chips before bought it in 2001. The paintwork is ok, both sides they taped off on the skirts, so when I remove the skirts, I see the 'taped off spots' This is not my why of 'good paint work'

If you want to keep your car in good shape, you have to paint once in a while. Look at the other side of the thing, if yyou let the paint damage as it is, then you don't threat your car well, and that should lower your value of the car.......

I wouldn't think about that to much, just take care of the good paint work. This is more important.

DavidI

A useful tip I picked up when looking for a 964 was that the factory apply a protective clear (but rough) coat of protective material to the inside of the wheel arches that extends midway along the thin painted area of the arch actually facing the tread of the tyre. If this coating cannot be seen then there is a fair chance that wing has been painted.

If you find a car that appears to have original paint in good condition then you are probably looking at paying the same sort of premium as you pay for a very low mileage car - I would expect a 13 (14 in my case) year-old car to have had paint, and provided it had been applied well I would not care. A good paint job will match the original colour perfectly and leave no traces of overspray or paint on surrounding trim. In other words other than knowing it is not the original paint, the job is as good, or, as Adrian says, better. It just shows the previous owner spent money on a good repair rather than doing things on the cheap.

My car has some very poor paint - areas where lacquer has flaked off, evidence of masking around the rain gutters, orange-peel paint finish in front of the rear arches - and I am looking forward to having the whole lot put right by a competent bodyshop.

The bodyshop will prefer to spray an area (eg a wing) rather than just fill a scratch in order to blend the paint in - not just the colour but also to avoid a stop/start area for the new paint. Your bumper could be removed and painted off the car, and the wing stripped of trim and sprayed. Neither of those warrant a full respray, but if there is an area in need of attention on each, or most, of the remaining panels then I could understand a full respray being cost (and finish) effective.

springer3

Two years ago I was shopping for a 964, and I did not even consider resprayed cars unless the accident and the repair process was documented. In no case could any seller produce any documentation, and in one case I found improper welding in the cross member supporting the engine. Too bad, because the car was gorgeous otherwise.

The best way to protect your self is to document the accident damage and the repair process. The next buyer will be able to confirm that the accident was minor, no frame damage occurred, and the repair was done properly.

Do not expect to get off cheap on a respray. Most cars, and I suspect Porsches included, have more money in the paint than they have in the engine. It stands to reason that a good respray will cost about the same as a good engine overhaul. In your case there is already rust present, so there are not shortcuts. Consider all the steps:

1) removal of all paint near the rusted areas
2) rust removal, metal repair, and cleaning
3) chemical etch for all bare metal
4) corrosion primer (contains passivators and rust inhibitors)
5) primer/surfacer (allows for sanding to a near perfect surface
6) primer/sealer (keep topcoat solvents from softening the lower primers, and causing "ulsers" in the gloss coats"
7) color coat
8) clear coat

I have rebuilt Porsche engines, and I have restored/repainted a slightly rusty 911 to a high standard. Believe me, there was much less work involved in rebuilding the engine.

Pick your shop carefully. A cheap respray involving any deviation from the paint manufacturers detailed instructions will ruin the car. The paint will fade, crack, blister or peel within just a few years. Most of the real work is hidden under the glossy layer, but that work is the most critical for the long-term value of the car.

Find a place that uses only high-end paint systems, and verify they follow the manufacturers insturctions to the letter. The paint and materials cost will be about $600, but the labor will bring the final cost for the paint job to around $5000. Labor is clearly the big cost driver, but the money is well spent.

If you don't want to pay for a quality respray, I suggest that your resale value will be better preserved by single-panel repair, and leave the factory finish on the remainder of the car. I would spot-repair the rusty spots to stop the spread of the rust, and live with blemishes at the spot repairs.

Best of luck

tonyc

Thanks for your advice everyone. I think I will go for the full respray but will have to check the body shop first. My mechanic has come in with a cost of about US$ 1000 for the job here in Hong Kong so will shop around first.
Perhaps it's time to change colour (currently metalic slate grey). Anyone know where one can find Porsche colours. I like the Metalic Seal Gray but not sure it was an option in 1990 and would like to keep in period as it were.

Tony

springer3

All the better paint system suppliers have catalogs with color chips showing colors available for each model year. Buying a factory color should not be a problem. However, I would suggest that changing colors is problematic. You will need to completely disassemble the car to get it right. Look in the trunk, door jams, and engine compartment, and see where the factory color would need to be changed. Look particularly at hinges, and consider how you can spray around the corners to get it right.

You can spray just the outside with a new color, but IMHO the the value will suffer if there are different colors on different parts of the car.

tonytaylor

A large percentage of 964`s will have had some "paint" during their life for stone chips and the inevitable minor scratches dints that occurr and the average price of the cars reflect this situation. Cars that are original as far as paint is concerned will either be very low milage, and will atract a premium price because of this, or have poor paint due to stonechips scratches etc - which will tend to reduce desirability.
New paint is a sign of accident damage and purchasers are right to be wary but any bodyshop expert can tell what repairs have been carried out and the extent of the damage prior to repair, and so a PPI is important where a car has had paint but should be carried out anyway. I think pre repair photos a good idea if the damage was minor.
A good paint shop can produce a better quality finish than Porsche but it will cost, - lots. Wether you will recoup the price of a high quality respray at saletime in a standard 964 is questionable.
I had a previous 944 resprayed at the front due to stone chips and the quality of the finish was excellant but it didn`t fully match the faded paint (guards red ) of the rest of the car even with a machine polish.
My personal view with mine ( and I`m not much of a polisher) is that I`ll never recoup the cost of a good respray and the poor appearance doesn`t unduly bother me so a respray would be for the next owner (if there is one)
Sure as eggs are eggs if I respray it , it will end up in a tyre wall.

ian c - u.k

i just had my cab fully resprayed cos there was stone chips to the front , fire damage to rear bumper , and one rear wheel arch .
there was no point repairing the bad bits and leaving the good , after all it is only half a car !!

its amazing how many very small marks in the paint you will find when you really look ( and have been told by an expert what to look for )
on my car , with the bits i noticed , and the bits we noticed on the second look , there was only 1 front wing not to paint !!!!!!

i have the car back now , the finish is far superior to anything porsche offer , and yet it is going back in 2 weeks to have the finish re-sanded and the final coat of laquer baked on .

my car has no orange peel , and the reflection is that good now that you could shave in it !! ( no kidding !! )

i will only use the cab in summer , so i'm not that bothered .

i would say that my car is now worth more than it was before , as the current owner had obviously cared for the car , done some research , and entrusted the job to a perfectionist .
rather than an un-caring owner just bothered about the sale , using any old shop to make the car look half decent .

ian c - u.k

while we're on the subject .....

i remember seeing an article in one of the porker mags ages ago about a company selling a plastic protector that goes under the bonnet on 911's .

where do i buy one ???

(yes , my car did have barely noticeable inside-out dents in the bonnet !!! )

joey bagadonuts

Sounds like you're pleased with the result, Ian, and I don't mean to rain on your parade, but isn't an orange peel finish more authentic? If anyone is unfamiliar with the term, take a look at your car's reflection from an angle. You should be able to see a textured finish under the shine reminiscent of an orange peel.

If you're doing a full respray, texture is less important. But for anyone considering painting only panels, bumbers or bonnet, you should look for a shop that can produce the orange peel texture. It's not very noticeable but an astute buyer will spot the difference when it comes time for resale.
And, if you're like me, it will absolutely drive you nuts knowing that your car's panels are mismatched.

Adrian

Dear Joey,
The orange peel affect is very German. BMW, Mercedes all end up with this as well. I actually do not like it. My C4 has had some rust repairs and battle damage repairs done.
My spray painter guy told me a little trick. I have mentioned it before. To match body panels try the Mercedes colour mixes. The Porsche colours when mixed are darker and harder to match.
However no matter what you, when you have a panel done it always looks like it has just been repainted.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

joey bagadonuts

Agreed. It's virtually impossible to get a perfect match. The best you can hope for is finding the right specialist who takes pride in his/her work and hope for the best.