Bosch Hammer Alternatives
12-19-2003, 02:25 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Hi Adrian,
Thanks for the feedback. I do hope I will be able to produce a useful tool at a reasonable price. I appreciate others have failed - I suppose I like a challenge !
During the last year I've learned how to rebuild and recalibrate hot wire MAFs for the 928, and also to reverse engineer the imfamous "tile" in the 928 LH ECU. I'm not a person to give up easily.
I appreciate you can find a bad ABS sensor with a multimeter, although my point is that many people would find it much quicker and easier with a fault code reader. Not everyone has your level of skill !
Yes, the DME used in the 964 is different to the seperate LH and EZK ECUs used in the 928. In fact, with the 928 you have to clear the LH faults before you can proceed to the next diagnosis, so in principle it appears similar.
You are probably right that I should have waited to announce the possibility of such a project. Certainly, the knowledge of it on the 964 Forum was not intended, but there has been a positive response which is encouraging.
Thanks very much for your offer of help. It really is appreciated, and I am sure I will need assistance as the 964 version of the tester is developed !
Very best regards -
Thanks for the feedback. I do hope I will be able to produce a useful tool at a reasonable price. I appreciate others have failed - I suppose I like a challenge !
During the last year I've learned how to rebuild and recalibrate hot wire MAFs for the 928, and also to reverse engineer the imfamous "tile" in the 928 LH ECU. I'm not a person to give up easily.
I appreciate you can find a bad ABS sensor with a multimeter, although my point is that many people would find it much quicker and easier with a fault code reader. Not everyone has your level of skill !
Yes, the DME used in the 964 is different to the seperate LH and EZK ECUs used in the 928. In fact, with the 928 you have to clear the LH faults before you can proceed to the next diagnosis, so in principle it appears similar.
You are probably right that I should have waited to announce the possibility of such a project. Certainly, the knowledge of it on the 964 Forum was not intended, but there has been a positive response which is encouraging.
Thanks very much for your offer of help. It really is appreciated, and I am sure I will need assistance as the 964 version of the tester is developed !
Very best regards -
12-19-2003, 09:59 PM
#17
The problem that no one has mentioned is that when the diagnostic tool
fails to identify a fault, e.g. an ABS sensor, the tool user assumes it's O.K.
This results in wasted time and potentially costly parts replacements.
The key to troubleshooting is to understand the system and how it functions.
Using the ABS example, one might assume the ABS sensor was O.K. because
the Hammer and resistance measurements were O.K. When the dynamic mode
occurs (The cars moves.) then the ABS light occurs. Here the sensor may be
mis-aligned or affected by brake dust or a bad rotor which the diagnostic tool
failed to identify.
Bottomline: Troubleshooting and parts replacement should be left to
qualified technicians. A diagnostic tool in the wrong hands is not a good
idea as exemplified in my previous post. If the shop had followed the
Hammer info, the 964 owner would have bought a DME unit in addition
to the 12 spark plugs!
Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2
fails to identify a fault, e.g. an ABS sensor, the tool user assumes it's O.K.
This results in wasted time and potentially costly parts replacements.
The key to troubleshooting is to understand the system and how it functions.
Using the ABS example, one might assume the ABS sensor was O.K. because
the Hammer and resistance measurements were O.K. When the dynamic mode
occurs (The cars moves.) then the ABS light occurs. Here the sensor may be
mis-aligned or affected by brake dust or a bad rotor which the diagnostic tool
failed to identify.
Bottomline: Troubleshooting and parts replacement should be left to
qualified technicians. A diagnostic tool in the wrong hands is not a good
idea as exemplified in my previous post. If the shop had followed the
Hammer info, the 964 owner would have bought a DME unit in addition
to the 12 spark plugs!
Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2
12-20-2003, 09:02 AM
#18
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The comment has been made already that diagnostic tools are a crutch that let the incompetent earn a living as mechanics. Cars are getting more sophisticated, but the typical car mechanic is not. Anyone who replaces a DME without first checking everything else first is not competent I contend that a shop is much more likely than an owner to act on the first output from a computer. It is not their money, and parts generate profits a lot faster than labor does.
The reason I need a code reader is not for diagnosis, but simply to reset the *!@#$% idiot lamps on the dash. It would also be fun to operate the resonance flap, disable individual injectors (to troubleshoot), and other test functions available via the Hammer. I expect savings on the first big repair will repay what I will spend to get my hands on one.
The reason I need a code reader is not for diagnosis, but simply to reset the *!@#$% idiot lamps on the dash. It would also be fun to operate the resonance flap, disable individual injectors (to troubleshoot), and other test functions available via the Hammer. I expect savings on the first big repair will repay what I will spend to get my hands on one.
12-20-2003, 03:50 PM
#19
Point well made. That's why low cost OBDII scanners are a great investment
for all, e.g. DIYs, at about $200 or less. The very large market with multiple
sources results in this low cost. The market is too small for any low cost Porsche
tester and much less for a 964/928 unit. If someone can produce a $200 to
$300 964/928 unit, that's great.
The market at the very most might be 500 to 1000 units. The development
costs probably would reach $100K, e.g. salaries, equipment and materials.
The direct costs excluding marketing and GA would probably cost $100 per
unit to produce. That doesn't leave much profit potential.
It would be a great benefit to all Porsche owners. Hopefully, potential suppliers
will fail to do a complete market analysis & biz plan and still produce a unit.
Good luck to all who attempt. I'll be one of the first to buy, as I can always use
another diagnostic tool.
Loren
'88 3.2
for all, e.g. DIYs, at about $200 or less. The very large market with multiple
sources results in this low cost. The market is too small for any low cost Porsche
tester and much less for a 964/928 unit. If someone can produce a $200 to
$300 964/928 unit, that's great.
The market at the very most might be 500 to 1000 units. The development
costs probably would reach $100K, e.g. salaries, equipment and materials.
The direct costs excluding marketing and GA would probably cost $100 per
unit to produce. That doesn't leave much profit potential.
It would be a great benefit to all Porsche owners. Hopefully, potential suppliers
will fail to do a complete market analysis & biz plan and still produce a unit.
Good luck to all who attempt. I'll be one of the first to buy, as I can always use
another diagnostic tool.
Loren
'88 3.2
10-02-2004, 10:54 PM
#20
Super Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I saw the article in Phils mag -911PW about John Speake's product - anyone know anymore details - in particular will it do everything the Hammer will for a 964?
10-03-2004, 06:28 AM
#21
Drifting
Ruairidh,
yes posted on this a while ago.
WIP.
so expect something reasonably soon, though timescales are somewhat software development dependant, sorry for the slightly evasive answer but that's the gist of it.
Johns unit does 928's no sweat, but the 964 tool is a way off as of yet.
Kevin
yes posted on this a while ago.
WIP.
so expect something reasonably soon, though timescales are somewhat software development dependant, sorry for the slightly evasive answer but that's the gist of it.
Johns unit does 928's no sweat, but the 964 tool is a way off as of yet.
Kevin
