aldo964

I'm in negotiations for another 964 which I really like the spec of although unfortunatly, as it's been in storage for 10 years, this potential purchase comes with a very leaky engine.
So I'm in two minds about it.

Symptoms are:

* Not the usual drips but literally pools of oil on ground under car. Interestingly oil accumulates on the ground even after the engine has been turned off (eg. next day)

* Lots of droplets under crankcase, in particular on the left hand side.

* Major leak apparantly from the bellhousing area, resulting in oil dripping onto the manifold crossover, creating lots of smoke from under wheelarches and inside cockpit too.

* Oil droplets on the left timing chain cover.

* Droplets on left main oil pipe connection (above left heat exchanger)


* I have had two seperate generic mechanics (not Porsche specialists) inspect it with somewhat conflicting views.
One of them said the bottem end gaskets and oil return tubes need replacing.
While the other mechanic said the oil return tubes were ok but the central crankcase gasket was the culprit, when even to me it's obvious that the leak is coming from somewhere above!
One of them even said that as the car had been sitting for a number of years the best thing to do would be to drive it and just hope the leaks take care of themselves.

* Wheras the seller said the car can not be driven more than a few miles in this condition as it's a fire risk. True or false?

If I were to buy it I wouldn't mind it dripping a bit, as most of them do, but it's the leak from the bellhousing area which concerns me most.
So, in summary, my question is how serious (i.e. costly) are these leaks likely to be; and what could possibly be causing the major leak from the bellhousing area?

Here are a few images.....


Timing chain cover.


Bottom end.


Main oil pipe connection


Note oil on manifold crossover.

Thanks in advance

Ralph3.

How many miles? Time for a top-end and reseal perhaps?

mojorizing

You really need to degrease the engine to find the exact location of the leaks. Oil gets blown around when driving and it soon appears that it is oozing oil from all the orifices when it's only the oil pressure sender on top that is doing the leaking.

Without owning the car, can you get it degreased? Your mechanics should go back to working on cars that only use 5 quarts of oil.

Tarek307

If the car has close or over 100k and never had an engine reseal and is leaking this bad, it wouldn't be too out of the question that engine may need a reseal..i think you need to do a full serious PPi on the car in this case to be safe.

ffc

This has been a great help to me with regard to oil leaks.

http://perelet.com/cars/porsche/leaks_thread/1.html

Super90

I'm betting that car is 1989-1991? I'm fixing what looks to be those same issues. I have a 1990 C2 with 85,000.

Main culprits on my car were/are cylinder base gaskets (photos #2 and #3 you posted), the timing box seal at the cam (photo #1 you posted), engine through bolts. Ultimately, all these cars will have those issues, it's just a matter of time/miles.

I can send you photos of my car that look the same as the ones you posted.

I chased and fixed all the other offenders, but ultimately, I pulled the motor, stripped to a longblock and took it to my engine builder to fix the cylinder base seals. It is in progress now.

Here are the two cylinder base gaskets that failed.







I decided to install the updated Mahle 3.6 pistons and cylinders while it is all apart. Many other items being refreshed at the same time included cams, heads, new case bolts, powder coated engine tin, etc. etc.

tdz3

I just did pretty much the exact same thing. My car only has 52k but is 27 years old. Time takes a toll.

964Andrew

aldo964: Save yourself some time and take it to a professional Porsche mechanic. They will degrease the engine and run it after to figure out where the oil is coming from. It can be as simple as a oil sender gasket, or as complicated as broken head-studs and split cylinders.

Also: Leaks won't fix themselves! That amount of oil under a car is very concerning. And, YES - oil leaks and poor maintenance can cause fire hazard.

Start with the right information, take you car to proper mechanic.

Thanks!
Andrew

cobalt

I agree this needs to be looked into by someone who knows these cars. However of all the 964's I can almost assure you your rear timing chain cover gaskets at a minimum will nee to be replaced. The rest needs to be degreased and run for a while to see how quickly and where the oil is coming from. There are also O rings that you can't see that tend to leak and drip down it is too hard to tell until the engine is cleaned and run.

I have seen engines looking like this needing very little and others needing a full tear down.

Super90

I agree with Anthony and Andrew. Get someone that knows 964s to clean and inspect it.

To be fair, I had already addressed all the other offenders, and cleaned again and driven for a while, and monitored things. That left these significant issues staring us in the face.

I did not mean to have you think there were no other potentially minor issues that could remedy that car, but know that it can mount up quickly.

Picture #2 just looks hauntingly familiar....

dlpalumbo

+1 to everything above. My car is a 90 C4. Cylinder base gaskets were brittle on my car. Leaks on top ( oil pressure and temp sensors and breather hose) dripped down back onto exhaust. You can see the top of the engine with a light, or use a small camera.

Had all this fixed (complete tear down + top end rebuild), now bottom of car is dry. Frustratingly, heat shields absorb oil and will continue to drip after a heat cycle for some time.

Car now runs great, sounds fantastic and is a blast to drive.

As suggested above, have a knowledgeable Porsche mechanic give you an estimate on what it would take to set car right.