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87 951 VEMS Install

 
Old 03-05-2019, 03:28 AM
  #406  
shortyboy
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Checked timing at idle, vems is set at 14, use timing gun and set at 14, I verify in timing window. Checked all timing marks also, cam mark, flywheel mark and balance shaft mark all show its correctly set at TDC. Checked knock sensor and found it showing 4.9M ohm at Klr pins, went and found a spare older model knock sensor, checked resistance and its 300k ohms within spec. Swap it in and noticed connector is frayed, chopped it and spliced in new connector. Fired her up and still same issues ( could have wires reversed but from what I read it doesn't matter ) so now I replaced all sensors in vehicle, associated harness/plugs. Entire fuel system ( though I'm still suspicious of aeromotive fpr as few are having issues with this brand ) as a last resort I also have a 36-1 crank trigger and bracket I got off ebay. But I'm not sure if it'll help much since I don't have trigger errors. Will keep for another project. I also gave Peeps advise a try and add or subtract coil dwell times from 1.5ms up to 4.5ms, not change. My coil is the only thing different from everyone as it's based off Vitesse Racing Wasted Spark kit. But it still doesn't explain why it would rub perfectly after a few restarts. Idk, maybe I can buy the coil supplied by vems and see if that changes anything.

What I know from the few of us having issues is that we all have a modified or aftermarket alternator installed. We also have hi torque starter. But there are those with these mods that don't have our issue. The only possible thing I can think of next is my IceShark cable kit, which includes battery, alternator and starter cables. My original cables were damaged so I will either need to get a new set or borrow from someone for testing. It's either that or something different in my engine harness thats causing the issue. My vems ecu works fine in another car.

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Old 03-05-2019, 08:06 AM
  #407  
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Does your Ford throttle body have the hole drilled through the throttle plate? Ford added the hole to help idle problems
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Old 03-06-2019, 03:44 PM
  #408  
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Originally Posted by MikeV View Post
Does your Ford throttle body have the hole drilled through the throttle plate? Ford added the hole to help idle problems
Yes, its bigger than the hole found on the stock 951 TB.
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:16 AM
  #409  
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installed a new fuel damper and new saddle adapter for 3 bar bosch fpr. No help but I hated that I kept loosing pressure when I shut off my car, apparently all Aeromotive FPRs will do that. I also was told CEP fuel damper leaked so I replaced it too. Still no change, but holds fuel pressure for a few hours like it should. Finally got around to install GSF wheel and trigger setup. I asked some on initial hardware setup. So I have motor at TDC and installed missing tooth after trigger sensor. Missing tooth is exactly 5 teeth from sensor, 5th one being on the sensor. Installation was very easy, it took longer to cut the belt covers than it did installing wheel and bracket. For a temp. solution for wiring, I got an injector plug and chopped up old speed sensor to plug into stock harness. Now I just need help in configuration in VEMS. I noticed theres a default config for 36-1 wheel in VEMS, but not sure the other settings is compatible with out motor. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Side note, I also ordered a new coil exactly like the one offered on VEMS website, maybe the coil I had for Vitesse isnt firing enough, causing lean condition? idk, it was $40, and I had a Ebay gift card for Christmas, lol. Here are some pics of install.





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Old 03-14-2019, 12:05 AM
  #410  
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Tried default settings for 36-1 wheel and didnt work. Changed TDC after trigger to 50, since its 10 degrees a tooth and its 5 teeth from TDC. Could not get motor to start. Anyone here using a 36-1 trigger wheel? Need to verify pins on ford sensor is wired correctly ( 2 pin sensor to 3 pin harness, dme then vems )

Last edited by shortyboy; 03-14-2019 at 03:27 AM.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:11 AM
  #411  
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Looking at the values you've entered, you are saying that as you spin the engine, first the gap passes under the sensor, then after 4 teeth your 'first trigger tooth' passes under the sensor, then after 5 more teeth (50 degrees) the engine is at TDC? If this is not happening when you spin the engine, then your settings are wrong.

You can find the approximate TDC after trigger angle by counting the teeth as you have done, then when you get the engine running, use a timing light to fine tune the angle until the timing light matches the timing that you have set in vems ( use the ignition lock tool).

I found it helps to use the visual trigger settings menu.

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Old 03-14-2019, 11:49 AM
  #412  
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Originally Posted by 944crazy View Post
Looking at the values you've entered, you are saying that as you spin the engine, first the gap passes under the sensor, then after 4 teeth your 'first trigger tooth' passes under the sensor, then after 5 more teeth (50 degrees) the engine is at TDC? If this is not happening when you spin the engine, then your settings are wrong.

You can find the approximate TDC after trigger angle by counting the teeth as you have done, then when you get the engine running, use a timing light to fine tune the angle until the timing light matches the timing that you have set in vems ( use the ignition lock tool).

I found it helps to use the visual trigger settings menu.

First Trigger Tooth should be 1,since tooth after gap is 0. Then 3 teeth after FTT would make it 30 degrees. Using ignition lock, do I set to zero?
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:34 PM
  #413  
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Originally Posted by shortyboy View Post
First Trigger Tooth should be 1,since tooth after gap is 0. Then 3 teeth after FTT would make it 30 degrees. Using ignition lock, do I set to zero?
So you're saying that TDC occurs on the 5th tooth after the gap? If so, then setting FTT to 1, and setting TDC after trigger to 30 degrees puts it at the right spot, but it is not within the recommended range of angles. TDC after trigger should be between 60 degrees and 127 degrees. Can you clock your trigger wheel to make a larger angle between the tooth gap and TDC?

Don't lock ignition at 0, it will need some ignition advance to idle properly. Idle is usually around 15 degrees advance. Keep in mind that if you have a non programmable timing light, like I did, you will need to put a mark that is so many degrees before the TDC mark.
I checked my timing by locking the ignition to 12 degrees, and then because I have a 60-2 flywheel, I simply put a mark on the flywheel that was 2 teeth before the tdc mark on my flywheel. When that mark lined up with the gun I knew the trigger settings were perfect.
You can also use the cam pulley and shine the light through the inspection window. Keep in mind the cam pulley turns at half the speed of the crank, so your timing mark has to be half the amount of degrees of the ignition lock before the tdc mark.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:46 PM
  #414  
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Originally Posted by 944crazy View Post
So you're saying that TDC occurs on the 5th tooth after the gap? If so, then setting FTT to 1, and setting TDC after trigger to 30 degrees puts it at the right spot, but it is not within the recommended range of angles. TDC after trigger should be between 60 degrees and 127 degrees. Can you clock your trigger wheel to make a larger angle between the tooth gap and TDC?

Don't lock ignition at 0, it will need some ignition advance to idle properly. Idle is usually around 15 degrees advance. Keep in mind that if you have a non programmable timing light, like I did, you will need to put a mark that is so many degrees before the TDC mark.
I checked my timing by locking the ignition to 12 degrees, and then because I have a 60-2 flywheel, I simply put a mark on the flywheel that was 2 teeth before the tdc mark on my flywheel. When that mark lined up with the gun I knew the trigger settings were perfect.
You can also use the cam pulley and shine the light through the inspection window. Keep in mind the cam pulley turns at half the speed of the crank, so your timing mark has to be half the amount of degrees of the ignition lock before the tdc mark.
I can clock the gap farther. New gap will be 14 teeth, teeth after gap is 0, FTT is 1, so now it will be 120 degrees. Ok, will lock ignition at 15.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:40 PM
  #415  
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Originally Posted by shortyboy View Post
I can clock the gap farther. New gap will be 14 teeth, teeth after gap is 0, FTT is 1, so now it will be 120 degrees. Ok, will lock ignition at 15.
Ok yep, that should work if you're getting TDC on the 14th tooth after the gap. If you find that when you are fine tuning the TDC after trigger angle with the timing light, and the angle gets too close to the max value of 127 degrees, you can just move the FTT to 2 or 3 and reduce the angle by 10 or 20 degrees respectively.

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Old 03-15-2019, 02:39 AM
  #416  
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Originally Posted by 944crazy View Post
Ok yep, that should work if you're getting TDC on the 14th tooth after the gap. If you find that when you are fine tuning the TDC after trigger angle with the timing light, and the angle gets too close to the max value of 127 degrees, you can just move the FTT to 2 or 3 and reduce the angle by 10 or 20 degrees respectively.
Just tried my settings with 30 degrees after tdc, and 0 FTT and was able to dial it in to 36 degrees. No trigger errors. Ran and caught the motor on start way faster than on stock speed and reference sensors. I just had it rigged up temporarily with wires unshielded. But the issue is still there BUT it's not as bad now. It used to stall and sputter like crazy, now I can still Rev it past 3k good, just off idle stumble and a bit of tps lag. I'm betting all this issues might be ignition related, since trying to get my timing down, the motor sounded and ran similar with the timing off on the stock sensor setup. So I had my new bosch coil pack come in, only to find they sent the wrong item. Instead of a coil pack for four cylinders, they sent 1 coil of plug coil, 😂. On to the joys of waiting for a package to arrive in Hawaii. Gonna also try and set the missing tooth farther to get the 120 degrees setting to see if it changed anything. But this is great progress after spending a ton of time and money trying to solve this. Much Appreciated 🤙🏽
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:06 PM
  #417  
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Guys, sorry for the noob question but I've searched and haven't found any information - what size tubing/hose fits onto the MAP sensor on the VEMS.

Photo below - I have the threaded `compression' fitting out of the shot.


The OE boost line doesn't fit, and silicone tubing I have on hand in the garage isn't working.

Ultimately - I would love to know what kind of fitting this is so I search for the right part.

Thanks!
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:49 PM
  #418  
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Originally Posted by KVDR View Post
Guys, sorry for the noob question but I've searched and haven't found any information - what size tubing/hose fits onto the MAP sensor on the VEMS.

Photo below - I have the threaded `compression' fitting out of the shot.


The OE boost line doesn't fit, and silicone tubing I have on hand in the garage isn't working.

Ultimately - I would love to know what kind of fitting this is so I search for the right part.

Thanks!
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...xoCzxkQAvD_BwE

I replaced the stock line with this. You will need to use a heated tool such as an awl to expand the end to fit on the fitting. Use the compression nut that came with the VEMS ecu.
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:02 AM
  #419  
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The fitting is for 6mm OD, 4mm ID poly tube. I have used poly tubing for all vacuum signals, it is very subtle looking and nice.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PUET06-04...YAAOSwdkZbKKhT
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Old 05-19-2019, 09:50 PM
  #420  
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Originally Posted by running_cold924 View Post
My timing keeps jumping up and down from 8 to 14 degrees with the idle, cant get it any closer than that. The only thing I have seen that makes it kinda smooth out is by running it pig-rich (.65-.70) and I know that's not right...

Making the req fuel higher changed the frequency on the surge, made it faster.
Originally Posted by odonnell View Post
Req fuel is good to have set correctly but ultimately your VE table and enrichment curves are what determines your fueling. They're all scaling your req fuel, so either way it'll be ok.

On my NA, best idle is around 13-14:1 AFR and it likes about 15-20* of ignition advance. Can you check with a timing light to see if you're actually getting your base timing? All you need is a basic one, the rest is setting up fixed timing temporarily in the tuning software.
Well my reply here is kinda late. But if your not in Ca ... you have the liberty of "masking" issues by running pig rich. But ... if your in CA, you can't do that! If your not at 14.7 at factory idle you will blow high HC's, and fail! I was a smog tech back in the day in CA and a car guy!! LOL, you should have seen the stuff I let guys get away with! But I had to quite that job before I got it caught.

And apparently I am the only one that found VW's cheating "funny??" I don't know how they got "Ratted " out. But what they did ... you can do with just about any Standalone, and they is why they are "illegal" in Ca. A map for test conditions idle and 25 mph and your good to go. And yep in Can it's best if the engine Bay look factory stock! A quick smog check and a modded 951 can pass easy enough with a properly set up standalone ... but if something "looks funny??" Then it off to BAR you go and those guys will dig in with a fine comb! It's best to avoid that crap!

I live in rural, NV these days "specifically" because no smog! But hey our Prius ... sigh, makes up for my 951 and big cammed Toyota 22r! The "modded 951 could pass smog with a degree of reinstall the Toyota however ... LOL no chance in hell.
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