Oil Pan Gasket and Rod Bearing Replacement Build Thread
07-05-2016, 05:13 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks for the Clarks garage reminder. It seems I've read so many threads about all of this and forgot all about Clarks Garage and that's exactly what I needed.
Still trying to figure out the parts to order. It sure does add up fast!
Got my Arnnworx gauge for the belts and tried it out on the old belts which I suspected to be too loose. They were slightly loose but even at proper tension these belt are looser than my other cars. Of course, I know the balance shaft belt is not supposed to be tight but even the timing belt seems on the loose side. And the Arnnworx gauge is very nicely made but can be a bit tricky to use. I assume I'm trying to measure the belt at its loosest but whenever cranking the engine backwards to get the slack where the gauge measures, the gauge would read the slack until I let go of the crank and then it would bounce back which it doesn't do in the instructional videos posted by Arnnworx. But I kept measuring and cranking and backcranking until it finally stayed. Not sure what the issue was exactly.
Also, when I moved the tensioner to adjust the belt, the gauge would not react until I backcranked the engine again to get the slack to the gauge. Again, in the videos this does not happen; the gauge reacts immediately and he sets the tension and it's done. Not my experience at all. Let me know if I did something wrong or if is just part of the process. I just kept redoing it over and over until it was the correct tension. Eventually it stayed and checked out correct so I figured it must be right. Still a little nervous though. Of course this was on the old belt and I will redo it with all new belts and rollers once I order the parts.
And I think I'll just keep the older baffle and pan. It's just getting too expensive and as mentioned above, the new pan and baffle are not a cure. I've driven this car for 170k miles already so I must be doing something right....Knock on wood. Hopefully with new rod bearings, it'll be ready for another 170k!
Still trying to figure out the parts to order. It sure does add up fast!
Got my Arnnworx gauge for the belts and tried it out on the old belts which I suspected to be too loose. They were slightly loose but even at proper tension these belt are looser than my other cars. Of course, I know the balance shaft belt is not supposed to be tight but even the timing belt seems on the loose side. And the Arnnworx gauge is very nicely made but can be a bit tricky to use. I assume I'm trying to measure the belt at its loosest but whenever cranking the engine backwards to get the slack where the gauge measures, the gauge would read the slack until I let go of the crank and then it would bounce back which it doesn't do in the instructional videos posted by Arnnworx. But I kept measuring and cranking and backcranking until it finally stayed. Not sure what the issue was exactly.
Also, when I moved the tensioner to adjust the belt, the gauge would not react until I backcranked the engine again to get the slack to the gauge. Again, in the videos this does not happen; the gauge reacts immediately and he sets the tension and it's done. Not my experience at all. Let me know if I did something wrong or if is just part of the process. I just kept redoing it over and over until it was the correct tension. Eventually it stayed and checked out correct so I figured it must be right. Still a little nervous though. Of course this was on the old belt and I will redo it with all new belts and rollers once I order the parts.
And I think I'll just keep the older baffle and pan. It's just getting too expensive and as mentioned above, the new pan and baffle are not a cure. I've driven this car for 170k miles already so I must be doing something right....Knock on wood. Hopefully with new rod bearings, it'll be ready for another 170k!
07-05-2016, 06:49 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks for the Clarks garage reminder. It seems I've read so many threads about all of this and forgot all about Clarks Garage and that's exactly what I needed.
Still trying to figure out the parts to order. It sure does add up fast!
Got my Arnnworx gauge for the belts and tried it out on the old belts which I suspected to be too loose. They were slightly loose but even at proper tension these belt are looser than my other cars. Of course, I know the balance shaft belt is not supposed to be tight but even the timing belt seems on the loose side. And the Arnnworx gauge is very nicely made but can be a bit tricky to use. I assume I'm trying to measure the belt at its loosest but whenever cranking the engine backwards to get the slack where the gauge measures, the gauge would read the slack until I let go of the crank and then it would bounce back which it doesn't do in the instructional videos posted by Arnnworx. But I kept measuring and cranking and backcranking until it finally stayed. Not sure what the issue was exactly.
Also, when I moved the tensioner to adjust the belt, the gauge would not react until I backcranked the engine again to get the slack to the gauge. Again, in the videos this does not happen; the gauge reacts immediately and he sets the tension and it's done. Not my experience at all. Let me know if I did something wrong or if is just part of the process. I just kept redoing it over and over until it was the correct tension. Eventually it stayed and checked out correct so I figured it must be right. Still a little nervous though. Of course this was on the old belt and I will redo it with all new belts and rollers once I order the parts.
And I think I'll just keep the older baffle and pan. It's just getting too expensive and as mentioned above, the new pan and baffle are not a cure. I've driven this car for 170k miles already so I must be doing something right....Knock on wood. Hopefully with new rod bearings, it'll be ready for another 170k!
Still trying to figure out the parts to order. It sure does add up fast!
Got my Arnnworx gauge for the belts and tried it out on the old belts which I suspected to be too loose. They were slightly loose but even at proper tension these belt are looser than my other cars. Of course, I know the balance shaft belt is not supposed to be tight but even the timing belt seems on the loose side. And the Arnnworx gauge is very nicely made but can be a bit tricky to use. I assume I'm trying to measure the belt at its loosest but whenever cranking the engine backwards to get the slack where the gauge measures, the gauge would read the slack until I let go of the crank and then it would bounce back which it doesn't do in the instructional videos posted by Arnnworx. But I kept measuring and cranking and backcranking until it finally stayed. Not sure what the issue was exactly.
Also, when I moved the tensioner to adjust the belt, the gauge would not react until I backcranked the engine again to get the slack to the gauge. Again, in the videos this does not happen; the gauge reacts immediately and he sets the tension and it's done. Not my experience at all. Let me know if I did something wrong or if is just part of the process. I just kept redoing it over and over until it was the correct tension. Eventually it stayed and checked out correct so I figured it must be right. Still a little nervous though. Of course this was on the old belt and I will redo it with all new belts and rollers once I order the parts.
And I think I'll just keep the older baffle and pan. It's just getting too expensive and as mentioned above, the new pan and baffle are not a cure. I've driven this car for 170k miles already so I must be doing something right....Knock on wood. Hopefully with new rod bearings, it'll be ready for another 170k!
07-16-2016, 04:52 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
A couple more questions:
1) For new timing and balance belts, how long for retensioning? And when I retension the first time, do I use the specs for a new or used timing belt?
2) Thinking of a catch can, specifically one like the Saikou Michi with reattachment to the factory intake but wondering how long before the can fills up? I realize there can be many variables but are we talking a week or two or several months, or I suppose mileage would be a better measuring method.
3) Which hoses under the manifold tend to always need replacing? All the hoses I can see look amazingly well preserved especially for a car with 170k miles and in a hot environment like LA. The only hose which looks suspect is the hard tube to brake booster. I guess I'm going to do a budget venturi delete so that hose will be replaced. I guess I'm asking what else under there that I can't see with the manifold installed will almost positively need replacing? And what about cycling valve? Do the hose connectors usually break off or can I save it? Don't really want to lose $120 on that valve...
4) Exhaust and Turbo hardware fasteners: Are they reusable or should I just replace them all? I know some will break and some will look suspect but from what I can see before breakdown, they look amazingly clean and free of corrosion. But 30 years of heat cycling takes its toll I'm sure. But they are ridiculously expensive....Ahh, decisions decisions...
Thanks, more parts coming on Tues so just about to begin this madness.
Many thanks for all the help you guys have given, I truly appreciate all of it.
1) For new timing and balance belts, how long for retensioning? And when I retension the first time, do I use the specs for a new or used timing belt?
2) Thinking of a catch can, specifically one like the Saikou Michi with reattachment to the factory intake but wondering how long before the can fills up? I realize there can be many variables but are we talking a week or two or several months, or I suppose mileage would be a better measuring method.
3) Which hoses under the manifold tend to always need replacing? All the hoses I can see look amazingly well preserved especially for a car with 170k miles and in a hot environment like LA. The only hose which looks suspect is the hard tube to brake booster. I guess I'm going to do a budget venturi delete so that hose will be replaced. I guess I'm asking what else under there that I can't see with the manifold installed will almost positively need replacing? And what about cycling valve? Do the hose connectors usually break off or can I save it? Don't really want to lose $120 on that valve...
4) Exhaust and Turbo hardware fasteners: Are they reusable or should I just replace them all? I know some will break and some will look suspect but from what I can see before breakdown, they look amazingly clean and free of corrosion. But 30 years of heat cycling takes its toll I'm sure. But they are ridiculously expensive....Ahh, decisions decisions...
Thanks, more parts coming on Tues so just about to begin this madness.
Many thanks for all the help you guys have given, I truly appreciate all of it.
07-20-2016, 01:08 PM
#19
The general thought is around 1500 miles for the re-tension, replace all of the hoses under the intake while its off and replace the hardware.
No idea on the catch can.
No idea on the catch can.
07-20-2016, 02:26 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
2) That is going to be relative to how much blow by your setup has. So that is hard to give any accurate estimate.
4) The exhaust nuts are distorted thread locknuts. Technically they are not reusable. You can use your own judgment. You can source a lot of the hardware in high grade (8.8 or 10.9) yellow zinc chromate from McMaster. Alternatively Rennbay & Paragon have a exhaust hardware kit which includes a lot of replacement pieces in standard zinc plate and copper.
IIRC, The metal sealing rings also again are technically not reusable but I've reused them before and haven't had issue.
4) The exhaust nuts are distorted thread locknuts. Technically they are not reusable. You can use your own judgment. You can source a lot of the hardware in high grade (8.8 or 10.9) yellow zinc chromate from McMaster. Alternatively Rennbay & Paragon have a exhaust hardware kit which includes a lot of replacement pieces in standard zinc plate and copper.
IIRC, The metal sealing rings also again are technically not reusable but I've reused them before and haven't had issue.
07-20-2016, 02:31 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
On the CV, the ports do break off very easily. If you want to take your chances, I'd cut all 3 vacuum hoses cleanly so that you can remove the CV without putting any pressure on the ports. Then carefully remove the hoses - if they're really old they can be kind of baked on there and you might have to do some surgery. Replace with 5/16" fuel hose cut to *exactly* the right length (too long and you will push pressure on the CV ports and probably break one or more).
07-21-2016, 09:06 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
4) The exhaust nuts are distorted thread locknuts. Technically they are not reusable. You can use your own judgment. You can source a lot of the hardware in high grade (8.8 or 10.9) yellow zinc chromate from McMaster. Alternatively Rennbay & Paragon have a exhaust hardware kit which includes a lot of replacement pieces in standard zinc plate and copper.
IIRC, The metal sealing rings also again are technically not reusable but I've reused them before and haven't had issue.
Is zinc plated better/worse/same as copper plated in high heat applications? I can find the zinc plated at autozone but didn't know if they were comparable....
So far got the intake mani off and tackling the crossover now. Most exhaust hardware comes off without too much trouble so far, thankfully.
Lots of labeling so hopefully I can remember where everything goes....
Not bad for 170k...
Do these bolts even need to come off? Does the downpipe have to come out or just the crossover and cat middle section exhaust?
I have a disintegrating front/inner rubber bushing on one of my control arms...what's the best fix? Don't want to spend the big money and read some threads disputing poly in this application but not sure what the consensus is on these bushings. I like poly on my other cars in any application so not afraid of any NVH.
Thanks
Last edited by superloaf; 07-21-2016 at 09:24 PM.
07-21-2016, 09:33 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
Yeah, I forgot many are self locking and therefor should be replaced. I saw the $42 Rennbay kit but all of the bigger bolts/nuts are stainless steel--are any of the OEM oneson the turbo copper? I can find most of the metric SS hardware locally for pretty cheap; the ones I can't find easily or cheaply are the copper parts. Those are extremely difficult to locate except at a dealer and then they are big money, in the area of $4 per nut for an M8.
Is zinc plated better/worse/same as copper plated in high heat applications? I can find the zinc plated at autozone but didn't know if they were comparable....
I have a disintegrating front/inner rubber bushing on one of my control arms...what's the best fix? Don't want to spend the big money and read some threads disputing poly in this application but not sure what the consensus is on these bushings. I like poly on my other cars in any application so not afraid of any NVH.
Thanks
Is zinc plated better/worse/same as copper plated in high heat applications? I can find the zinc plated at autozone but didn't know if they were comparable....
I have a disintegrating front/inner rubber bushing on one of my control arms...what's the best fix? Don't want to spend the big money and read some threads disputing poly in this application but not sure what the consensus is on these bushings. I like poly on my other cars in any application so not afraid of any NVH.
Thanks
. Also most of the copper exhaust nuts are flange nuts which "builds-in" the washer into 1 part so there is less fiddling. Are you sure the Rennbay kit is SS I figured it was regular zinc plate steel. In general I stay away from stainless unless its a low torque/simple application (The Batwing hardware would be a good example) or the hardware is specifically designed like ARP stud/nuts..etc. Stainless is more prone to galling, and when you combine that with a aluminum block which already has threading issues it makes for a ****ty situation. SS also generally has less tensile strength than a 8.8 steel and is more costly.
If you like Poly on your other cars; go with Poly then. Elephant has an article disputing the effectiveness of poly here. For me I would likely go rubber.
I don't think you need to remove the downpipe to get access to all the pan bolts. Once you've have stuff loose for the first time then when your in that area again (at least I) tend to just take stuff off because I want the best possible view of what I'm doing.
07-24-2016, 05:18 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
No the OEM nuts are not copper they are steel. The copper nuts are generally a nice "upgrade" for the exhaust headers/turbo since they are a softer material then the stud that they will be attached to which makes for an easier removal even in worst case scenarios. Not to mention copper doesn't rust just oxidizes statue of liberty green . Also most of the copper exhaust nuts are flange nuts which "builds-in" the washer into 1 part so there is less fiddling.
Are you sure the Rennbay kit is SS I figured it was regular zinc plate steel. In general I stay away from stainless unless its a low torque/simple application (The Batwing hardware would be a good example) or the hardware is specifically designed like ARP stud/nuts..etc. Stainless is more prone to galling, and when you combine that with a aluminum block which already has threading issues it makes for a ****ty situation. SS also generally has less tensile strength than a 8.8 steel and is more costly.
If you like Poly on your other cars; go with Poly then. Elephant has an article disputing the effectiveness of poly here. For me I would likely go rubber.
I don't think you need to remove the downpipe to get access to all the pan bolts. Once you've have stuff loose for the first time then when your in that area again (at least I) tend to just take stuff off because I want the best possible view of what I'm doing.
. Also most of the copper exhaust nuts are flange nuts which "builds-in" the washer into 1 part so there is less fiddling. Are you sure the Rennbay kit is SS I figured it was regular zinc plate steel. In general I stay away from stainless unless its a low torque/simple application (The Batwing hardware would be a good example) or the hardware is specifically designed like ARP stud/nuts..etc. Stainless is more prone to galling, and when you combine that with a aluminum block which already has threading issues it makes for a ****ty situation. SS also generally has less tensile strength than a 8.8 steel and is more costly.
If you like Poly on your other cars; go with Poly then. Elephant has an article disputing the effectiveness of poly here. For me I would likely go rubber.
I don't think you need to remove the downpipe to get access to all the pan bolts. Once you've have stuff loose for the first time then when your in that area again (at least I) tend to just take stuff off because I want the best possible view of what I'm doing.
And I thought the copper was so that under high heat of the exhaust, the steel won't seize or fuse to copper. Also, it seems to me that some copper nuts are plated and some are solid copper; I think maybe they've switched to plating lately but again I'm not positive on the true content since I've never sliced one in half....
Porsche specifies Optimoly HT which is a copper anti seize that is difficult to find. I'm going to use Lubro Moly LM508.
Are you saying Porsche didn't use copper as OEM? I believe the OEM parts now are copper; not for everything but many of the nuts at least.
Also, I had to cut off the wastegate to cycling valve hose and now see that it's a $30 hose but to me it looks like a silicone hose in the proper size will be just as good. Can anyone confirm that a straight hose will be fine here as I haven't removed the full hose to see if it has any specific bends/curves in it?
07-26-2016, 05:53 AM
#25
Three Wheelin'
Silicone hose is fine for the waste gate, fuel line works too. Anti-seize is your friend on exhaust fasteners, the brand is not too important.
For fasteners, S/S is probably the best, but the hardware kits with the copper coated are fine too. The factory nuts are a steel alloy of some sort, and they are self locking. I have used all three at one time or another. Anti-seize will enable you to get it apart later.
For fasteners, S/S is probably the best, but the hardware kits with the copper coated are fine too. The factory nuts are a steel alloy of some sort, and they are self locking. I have used all three at one time or another. Anti-seize will enable you to get it apart later.
07-27-2016, 03:42 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks for the fastener info; I'm probably overthinking it.
So I finally got the pan off last night. And I took the #2 bearing cap off and the rod journal looks clean and shiny but the bearing has definite wear marks. I'll post a pic later. Also, the bearing is dated 3/1990 so someone went in their and replaced them at some point; was there a recall on the rod bearings? I bought the car in 1998 with 55k miles so it's odd that they were changed with such low mileage when they were.
Also, my oil pan is part # 944 101 201 6R which I guess is the early, early pan. The baffle has a crack but it's basically still in one piece. So what should I do? I'm not sure of the best option as even just replacing the baffle is $100. Or I could find a newer oil pan with the used baffle for just a little more money. Or I could find the updated pan and put a new baffle in it which will be about $200. Will the new pan and baffle fit as is or will I need a different supply tube and other parts?
So I finally got the pan off last night. And I took the #2 bearing cap off and the rod journal looks clean and shiny but the bearing has definite wear marks. I'll post a pic later. Also, the bearing is dated 3/1990 so someone went in their and replaced them at some point; was there a recall on the rod bearings? I bought the car in 1998 with 55k miles so it's odd that they were changed with such low mileage when they were.
Also, my oil pan is part # 944 101 201 6R which I guess is the early, early pan. The baffle has a crack but it's basically still in one piece. So what should I do? I'm not sure of the best option as even just replacing the baffle is $100. Or I could find a newer oil pan with the used baffle for just a little more money. Or I could find the updated pan and put a new baffle in it which will be about $200. Will the new pan and baffle fit as is or will I need a different supply tube and other parts?
07-27-2016, 04:06 PM
#28
Three Wheelin'
Thanks for the fastener info; I'm probably overthinking it.
So I finally got the pan off last night. And I took the #2 bearing cap off and the rod journal looks clean and shiny but the bearing has definite wear marks. I'll post a pic later. Also, the bearing is dated 3/1990 so someone went in their and replaced them at some point; was there a recall on the rod bearings? I bought the car in 1998 with 55k miles so it's odd that they were changed with such low mileage when they were.
Also, my oil pan is part # 944 101 201 6R which I guess is the early, early pan. The baffle has a crack but it's basically still in one piece. So what should I do? I'm not sure of the best option as even just replacing the baffle is $100. Or I could find a newer oil pan with the used baffle for just a little more money. Or I could find the updated pan and put a new baffle in it which will be about $200. Will the new pan and baffle fit as is or will I need a different supply tube and other parts?
So I finally got the pan off last night. And I took the #2 bearing cap off and the rod journal looks clean and shiny but the bearing has definite wear marks. I'll post a pic later. Also, the bearing is dated 3/1990 so someone went in their and replaced them at some point; was there a recall on the rod bearings? I bought the car in 1998 with 55k miles so it's odd that they were changed with such low mileage when they were.
Also, my oil pan is part # 944 101 201 6R which I guess is the early, early pan. The baffle has a crack but it's basically still in one piece. So what should I do? I'm not sure of the best option as even just replacing the baffle is $100. Or I could find a newer oil pan with the used baffle for just a little more money. Or I could find the updated pan and put a new baffle in it which will be about $200. Will the new pan and baffle fit as is or will I need a different supply tube and other parts?
07-27-2016, 06:36 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
