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I wish I had dyno charts for Duke's or Rod's engines, or Shawn's new 3.0L
But here's a nice comparison of the 2.5L 07k vs Shawn's 2.85L
I agree a 1.8T is going to have some trade-offs compared to a 2.5L 951 engine, and I'm not advocating this swap. As you can tell, I'm much more of an I5 fan.
07k with an EFR7163 (100oct) nearly matches the 2.85L (E85) peak HP numbers, beats it's peak TQ numbers, and has a 500rpm spool advantage.
07k with a Xona Rotor 9567 (E85) matches the spool of the 2.85L (E85) with a 300+whp/150+wtq advantage and 2000rpm powerband advantage.
We might all be looking at this the wrong way, too. Don't think of this as a "swap vs built M44/51," but rather putting something like this in a NA car. THAT would probably be the best bang for the buck.
We might all be looking at this the wrong way, too. Don't think of this as a "swap vs built M44/51," but rather putting something like this in a NA car. THAT would probably be the best bang for the buck.
The Red & Green lines are from an Audi i5, not the VW 1.8ltr. At considerably higher psi though. So while it may not be Apples for Apples, it doesn't matter.
Our motors can't run for any duration over 30psi and these should be able to with iron block and much smaller bolt spacing. So if you compared them at say 20psi, some of the best Porsche motors might even be better...but the i5 can continue to crank the boost up well past where we historically have. Still, looking at Gustaf's and a few other 16v Porsche motors, they don't do too badly all the same. :-)
I used to be sceptical to the LSx engines but this is just a downgrade. We can all play this if you want 1000WHP boost a LS engine that will also make TQ. A swap involves to much work to be downgrading
1.8L does not make sense unless you are racing the car in a series that requires tiny displacement. But then again maybe the gearbox will survive such a engine .
The Red & Green lines are from an Audi i5, not the VW 1.8ltr. At considerably higher psi though. So while it may not be Apples for Apples, it doesn't matter.
Our motors can't run for any duration over 30psi and these should be able to with iron block and much smaller bolt spacing. So if you compared them at say 20psi, some of the best Porsche motors might even be better...but the i5 can continue to crank the boost up well past where we historically have. Still, looking at Gustaf's and a few other 16v Porsche motors, they don't do too badly all the same. :-)
All this tells me is we need to R & D 968 blocks made of iron. Lol
Have a 1000 made at $500 a pop.
Probably get flooded with people asking why they are so high.....
It is not without it's problems, but I dare say there is a larger aftermarket supporting that engine. And it carries a lower replacement and build cost than the M44. Although that is somewhat tempered by the cost of the swap.
And I doubt we will ever see a practical application of the CLA45 engine, just due to the massive amounts of electronics modern engines require.
It cokes oil and it does it hardcore. I've never seen coked 944 engine but had my girlfriends audi 1.6 non turbo engine coke so much it blocked oil to the head and melted plastic stuff inside it so much it went to oil pan and destroyed engine.
1.8 design is even worse and was even found to be so by some major us quality institute. (forgot which)
Originally Posted by alxdgr8
Being in every golf/passat/audi/etc is one of the main benefits, the engines are everywhere so they're cheap and plentiful! Much more so than a 951 engine. Easier to find/much larger aftermarket/cheaper to build/higher power potential. All engines have problems, I wouldn't say the 1.8T is any more problematic than a 951 engine. 1.8T problems are just more pronounced since they're in so many cars with ****ty owners that don't perform regular maintenance.
There is only half truth in ****ty owners reason because I religiously maintained my gf's oil and only used factory Aral + the car was driven perfectly normal, it still totally blew its engine full of black ****, I was totally blown away when I saw what happened inside.
The reason why I like brandname sport cars and motorcycles is because of their technical exclusivity, it makes my day in the morning when I turn the key on my open exhaust Ducati or 944 or maybe someday an old Ferrari. The magic never happens when I turn on 4cyl audi or any diesel.
That said, audi 5cyl is a masterpiece and properly made is definitely much superior to 1.8t.
There was a 944 running the lemons in Loudon new hampshire, for a few years with the 1.8T in it. Must have been done in 2013ish. Great guys to talk with and race with. Their company specialized in swapped engines and turbo kits that look factory.
The AUDI/VW 1.8 turbo engines have earned awards, and top ten engines over the years.
But the 2.5 5 Cylinder from Audi should have earned similar stripes. The Volvo turbo 5 cylinder motors are also very well engineered engines for consideration, but I'm either buying an AUDI or VOLVO if I want one of these motors. In my 951 - sticking with what works very well.
There was a 944 running the lemons in Loudon new hampshire, for a few years with the 1.8T in it. Must have been done in 2013ish. Great guys to talk with and race with. Their company specialized in swapped engines and turbo kits that look factory.
Marc Swanson of EFI Express was one of those guys running that car.
The Red & Green lines are from an Audi i5, not the VW 1.8ltr. At considerably higher psi though. So while it may not be Apples for Apples, it doesn't matter.
Our motors can't run for any duration over 30psi and these should be able to with iron block and much smaller bolt spacing. So if you compared them at say 20psi, some of the best Porsche motors might even be better...but the i5 can continue to crank the boost up well past where we historically have. Still, looking at Gustaf's and a few other 16v Porsche motors, they don't do too badly all the same. :-)
Actually, the EFR7163 dyno map is nearly the same PSI as Shawn's dyno. I think the 7163 was at around 25-26psi and Shawn was at 24psi. But yes the Xona9567 chart was at ~36psi.
One of my favorite inline 4 turbo engines is the Saab 2.3. Used to have an Aero 9-5 sedan. Stock turbo, flashed ECU, proper exhaust and she was a complete surprise. Granted - prior to the LSD installed, I could light up one front tire for a few hundred yards. This sedan flew with just an ECU flash and exhaust. Loved that killer sedan.
Since folks here seem to have interest in other inline 4 options - there are vastly superior options to consider. In order my favorite blown 4 motors in cars I've owned and modified not Porsche: 1st: 2.3 Saab. 2nd: Mitsubishi 2.0. 3rd: Volvo - oops - it had an inline 5. STI doesn't count - not an inline 4.
Only Audi-VW turbo engine I've owned - S4 TT - Most difficult engine I've modified to date. Liked the car - despised the difficulty towards making additional power reliably.
Actually, the EFR7163 dyno map is nearly the same PSI as Shawn's dyno. I think the 7163 was at around 25-26psi and Shawn was at 24psi. But yes the Xona9567 chart was at ~36psi.
But realistically the EFR7163 would probably perform better in Shawns car, it's an excellent turbo.
04-16-2016, 05:35 PM
951_vs_07k_HP by Vex Art, on Flickr
951_vs_07k_TQ by Vex Art, on Flickr
