Which Head Gasket for me?
10-13-2003, 06:03 AM
#32
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Hi guys I am fairly new to the board, English is my second language so please excuse my poor grammar. Let me share my experience with Guru head gasket. My son in law and I share a common interest in 951's my current car (my 2nd 951) was purchased from him with a blown head gasket. He had blown the head gasket 3 times and the previous owner before him once, all the times the head gasket was blown it was replaced with a wide fire head gasket, the true is that we never notice the difference, the head gasket would blow right away. After purchasing the car I contacted Danno, he agree to tune and replace my head gasket with his metal gasket, well it was done and since July 2003 the car has been running great. Well there is another side to this story, Danno agree to dyno tune my car so we did, at the first session we dynoed at 246hp and 252tq @ 13psi, next session we try to increased the boost to 18psi but the highest we got was 16psi the dyno results were 254hp and 266tq. Well to be short last week I took my car for oil change and tune up to my mechanic and he found a exhaust leak, he proceeded to fixed, and I got my car last Friday going home I notice that my car totally different, the turbo was spooling sooner and WOW the boost went almost as high as 19psi on 4th gear, it was measured with an after market gauge. It was so scary that car hit 140 so fast (I was driving on the 60fwy about 11:30pm no traffic). Since then I have been driving at that level of boost and my car is running great at least for now. I have been running the car hard all weekend and I have not seen white smoke or sings of blown head gasket. Danno said I shouldn’t worry about it since the car was tune and have the proper air/fuel ratio. I am still kind of worry my car has a history of blown head gasket but so far the Guru metal gasket has hold well even for 19psi. Well I am not only impress with the performance but also impress by the strength of the Guru metal gasket so far.
Sorry if I hi jacked your thread but I am so happy with the job Danno did on my car I recommend the Guru gasket 100% as well as any other Guru racing products (my chips are guru as well) you wont regret it Go Guru.
Thanks
Ricardo
Sorry if I hi jacked your thread but I am so happy with the job Danno did on my car I recommend the Guru gasket 100% as well as any other Guru racing products (my chips are guru as well) you wont regret it Go Guru.
Thanks
Ricardo
10-13-2003, 02:22 PM
#34
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LOL,,TonyG,,I like getting you fired up. I really appreciate your knowledge at times,,,but your soap box stands....you think your the only one who has measured and looked at gaskets closely?
You see Tony, I only like to do things once and I prefer to do them the right way and maybe I would have bought one but when I redid the car the Cometic gasket was not offered which is why I perfected my A/F curve with Danno so I won't blow or burn through my poor little WFHG. NOW IF, I happen to burn through this or blow this one then I would consider the Cometic gasket but to just call the WFHG a pc of crap,, I simply disagree and personally, I would rather blow a head gasket then burn a hole in a piston or worse. Actually when we took the head off the car the factory gasket was in excellent shape., running 15psi.
I'm sure the Cometic gakset is a good one. But if you keep blowing head gaskets, no matter what they are made of, you have problems with something else other than the gasket itself.
You see Tony, I only like to do things once and I prefer to do them the right way and maybe I would have bought one but when I redid the car the Cometic gasket was not offered which is why I perfected my A/F curve with Danno so I won't blow or burn through my poor little WFHG. NOW IF, I happen to burn through this or blow this one then I would consider the Cometic gasket but to just call the WFHG a pc of crap,, I simply disagree and personally, I would rather blow a head gasket then burn a hole in a piston or worse. Actually when we took the head off the car the factory gasket was in excellent shape., running 15psi.
I'm sure the Cometic gakset is a good one. But if you keep blowing head gaskets, no matter what they are made of, you have problems with something else other than the gasket itself.
10-13-2003, 03:43 PM
#35
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If head gasket does not blow, what will happen then?
If you are running the correct AF Ratio in theory you should be fine.
Head gasket is kind of cheap insurance, for when things go wrong.
It has been stated some guys have used the WFHG with great success.
If you are running the correct AF Ratio in theory you should be fine.
Head gasket is kind of cheap insurance, for when things go wrong.
It has been stated some guys have used the WFHG with great success.
10-13-2003, 05:19 PM
#36
Nordschleife Master
I had my copper gasket replaced with a stock one two weeks ago and no problems yet.
My problems were with coolant leaking into the cylinders after shutdown.
Hope it stays fixed now. I also installed an air/fuel monitor, but iy shows I'm well on the rich side, so that can't have been my problem.
My problems were with coolant leaking into the cylinders after shutdown.
Hope it stays fixed now. I also installed an air/fuel monitor, but iy shows I'm well on the rich side, so that can't have been my problem.
10-13-2003, 07:07 PM
#37
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I just tell it like it is.. based on experience.
..
There are many different ways the WFHG can "blow", even with a "perfect a/f ratio".
Here are three examples, each that can occur with a perfect a/f ratio:
The fire ring can deform due to cylinder pressure... very common.
The fire ring can burn through ... very common.
The head moves around on the engine and deforms the fire ring. Again... very common.
Do you think that fire ring deformation will save a piston? Or do you think that a fire ring burning through will save a pistion?
Or do you think that just because your a/f ratios are perfect that you can't severely score a cylinder wall?
Please tell me how, and exactly what type, of head gasket failure will save a piston and cylinder bore.... I'd love to hear this.
I call the WFHG a piece of crap because it's 99.9% a stock head gasket. The added width on one side of the fire ring does nothing to truely prevent the deformation of the fire ring ring. And it's in this context, that the design of the WFHG fails (since the obvious addition of the side width was intended to prevent the ring deformation). Couple this with the fact that the fire ring is no thicker than the stock fire ring, thus the ability to burn through one is exactly the same.
In the end... people think that the WFHG is, for some reason, stonger and less likely to "blow" than a stock head gasket. That couldn't be farther from the truth.
And.. people believe, through zero experience, that a failed head gasket is capable of saving an engine... Again... very far from the truth.
But what people don't realize is that when the head gasket fails, assuming that coolant can get into the cylinder, which can happend with certain types of common failures, the coolant will wash down the cylinder bore. The piston is still going up and down, and combustion is still taking place. Guess what? No lubrication. No lubrication = trashed cylinder bores and pistons. How was this engine saved by the failure of the fire ring?
And concerning your "taking off your old gasket...which was in perfect shape"....
How did you come to the conclusion that it was in perfect shape?
TonyG
I just tell it like it is.. based on experience.
..
There are many different ways the WFHG can "blow", even with a "perfect a/f ratio".
Here are three examples, each that can occur with a perfect a/f ratio:
The fire ring can deform due to cylinder pressure... very common.
The fire ring can burn through ... very common.
The head moves around on the engine and deforms the fire ring. Again... very common.
Do you think that fire ring deformation will save a piston? Or do you think that a fire ring burning through will save a pistion?
Or do you think that just because your a/f ratios are perfect that you can't severely score a cylinder wall?
Please tell me how, and exactly what type, of head gasket failure will save a piston and cylinder bore.... I'd love to hear this.
I call the WFHG a piece of crap because it's 99.9% a stock head gasket. The added width on one side of the fire ring does nothing to truely prevent the deformation of the fire ring ring. And it's in this context, that the design of the WFHG fails (since the obvious addition of the side width was intended to prevent the ring deformation). Couple this with the fact that the fire ring is no thicker than the stock fire ring, thus the ability to burn through one is exactly the same.
In the end... people think that the WFHG is, for some reason, stonger and less likely to "blow" than a stock head gasket. That couldn't be farther from the truth.
And.. people believe, through zero experience, that a failed head gasket is capable of saving an engine... Again... very far from the truth.
But what people don't realize is that when the head gasket fails, assuming that coolant can get into the cylinder, which can happend with certain types of common failures, the coolant will wash down the cylinder bore. The piston is still going up and down, and combustion is still taking place. Guess what? No lubrication. No lubrication = trashed cylinder bores and pistons. How was this engine saved by the failure of the fire ring?
And concerning your "taking off your old gasket...which was in perfect shape"....
How did you come to the conclusion that it was in perfect shape?
TonyG
10-13-2003, 07:42 PM
#38
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pk951
Head gaskets almost never ever "blow" as in POP. Rather they [the failed head gaskets] start to leak out cylinder pressure into the cooling system, which slowly pushes coolant out causing the car to start to over heat.
In this case (if the head gasket didn't "blow"), you'd be left with a engine that is not over heating because of coolant being pressurized which results in it being pushed out of the cooling system and you would not be sucking in to the affected cylinder, coolant that will displace the lubricating oil, and provide you with a nice scorred cylinder wall/piston.
That's what would happen.
Head gaskets almost never ever "blow" as in POP. Rather they [the failed head gaskets] start to leak out cylinder pressure into the cooling system, which slowly pushes coolant out causing the car to start to over heat.
In this case (if the head gasket didn't "blow"), you'd be left with a engine that is not over heating because of coolant being pressurized which results in it being pushed out of the cooling system and you would not be sucking in to the affected cylinder, coolant that will displace the lubricating oil, and provide you with a nice scorred cylinder wall/piston.
That's what would happen.
10-16-2003, 11:57 PM
#39
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back together already
Hello everyone,
I waited as long as i could for the HG from Huntley. I called yesterday and was told that it was backordered. Well, my vacation is over and i have to have the car back together....I called Danno yesterday afternoon, when the car was still torn apart..........I drove it tonight!
The "Guru Ultimate" gasket is easy to install, and so far it holds 15 lbs. boost without any difficulty.......I highly recommend it! I did use the copper spray, per the instructions with no leaks...photos may be forthcoming.
Thanks to everyone for their input!
doug
I waited as long as i could for the HG from Huntley. I called yesterday and was told that it was backordered. Well, my vacation is over and i have to have the car back together....I called Danno yesterday afternoon, when the car was still torn apart..........I drove it tonight!
The "Guru Ultimate" gasket is easy to install, and so far it holds 15 lbs. boost without any difficulty.......I highly recommend it! I did use the copper spray, per the instructions with no leaks...photos may be forthcoming.
Thanks to everyone for their input!
doug
10-17-2003, 09:33 PM
#40
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today i run the car on 18lbs of boost and i notice than the lindsey A\F monitor dont reach the 12.3 led ,i look back and i see a white smoke out of the muffler , then i check the coolant i see spots of oil. this can be a h\g fail?
10-18-2003, 12:55 PM
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Tony S,
Check your oil for coolant, and remove your sparkplugs. Crank the motor over with the plugs removed. If your plugs were wet with coolant, or you had coolant in your oil, then you have the 951 owners plague...Blown HG. Cranking the motor over will push the coolant out of the cylinder. if the HG is blown, don't let it sit with coolant in the cyl's and don't crank the motor over with the plugs in. The coolant will corrode your cyl's if you let it sit for a while.
Good luck. Post your findings.
doug
Check your oil for coolant, and remove your sparkplugs. Crank the motor over with the plugs removed. If your plugs were wet with coolant, or you had coolant in your oil, then you have the 951 owners plague...Blown HG. Cranking the motor over will push the coolant out of the cylinder. if the HG is blown, don't let it sit with coolant in the cyl's and don't crank the motor over with the plugs in. The coolant will corrode your cyl's if you let it sit for a while.
Good luck. Post your findings.
doug
10-18-2003, 04:44 PM
#42
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All,
I have the cometic MLS gasket installed on my motor. After several hundred miles on the new engine, it looks like I've got water leaking into the combustion chambers. Major bummer.
Overall, i think the jury's still out on *any* MLS headgasket... I think the problem with the MLS headgaskets on the 951 motor is related to the open deck design of the block. I don't know of any other open deck motors that are using this design with success - all the ricer motors are closed deck and thus provide more surface area for sealing.
At this point, I think the widefire headgasket is the best compromise position for a performance headgasket for the 951 motor.
Sean
I have the cometic MLS gasket installed on my motor. After several hundred miles on the new engine, it looks like I've got water leaking into the combustion chambers. Major bummer.
Overall, i think the jury's still out on *any* MLS headgasket... I think the problem with the MLS headgaskets on the 951 motor is related to the open deck design of the block. I don't know of any other open deck motors that are using this design with success - all the ricer motors are closed deck and thus provide more surface area for sealing.
At this point, I think the widefire headgasket is the best compromise position for a performance headgasket for the 951 motor.
Sean
10-18-2003, 06:45 PM
#43
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Sean, sorry to hear that but I know the feeling. I went with the MLS and made only about 30 miles before it was clear I had coolant coming into the #1 cylinder. Replaced it with a Wide fire head gasket and with no o-ringing on my head I have made it 1500 miles with no sign yet of a leaky head gasket. I agree that there may be something about an open deck block, however, several others seem to have had good luck with them??
10-18-2003, 07:02 PM
#44
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Sean Hall and Dand86951,
I am extremely sorry to hear about your losses. It scares the heck out of me as I am still dialing my Baby's air/ fuel ratios up to par. Sean, I for one am very interested in hearing about your progress after the you change your head gasket. Your experiences are saving me time, money and frustration. Sorry but thanks I owe you guys a beer. ed
I am extremely sorry to hear about your losses. It scares the heck out of me as I am still dialing my Baby's air/ fuel ratios up to par. Sean, I for one am very interested in hearing about your progress after the you change your head gasket. Your experiences are saving me time, money and frustration. Sorry but thanks I owe you guys a beer. ed
10-18-2003, 11:01 PM
#45
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A lot of the oem's are turning to mls gaskets on prob. vehicles neons for one. I have exp. on both dom. and imports and have found prep. is crucial for longevity. Alum heads usually deform upon removal and should be milled block should also be checked for straightness. Never re-use head bolts or studs clamping force is based on fastener stretch. Nine times out of ten you might get away with it but there's always that one time.