Knife edged crank
#16
I guess the point is that is not simple. Many have been successful and that is great, some have not been so fortunate. The dynamics are complicated. It really depends on many factors, amount of mass removed, PP, fly wheel, internals, etc. and I think that unless you have a good understanding of these factors and their contributions to harmonics it is best not to mess with with the crank a great deal. Just my 2 cents.
#17
How about explaining instead of the +1s. My car came with a knife edged crank and I put it back in when I rebuilt it. It makes sense to me to have the counterweight lightened in combination with lighter pistons and rods and then the whole rotating assembly balanced. The windage tray may not be perfect anymore on the late oil pans that have that.
#18
How about explaining instead of the +1s. My car came with a knife edged crank and I put it back in when I rebuilt it. It makes sense to me to have the counterweight lightened in combination with lighter pistons and rods and then the whole rotating assembly balanced. The windage tray may not be perfect anymore on the late oil pans that have that.
the crank counterweights are to counter the weight of the other counterweights
heavier crank doesnt transmit vibrations as much and doesn't flex so easily along its length...what patrick refers to as "whip"
the crank weights don't have any relation to the piston/rod weights, but the balance shafts DO.
#19
#21
Here's the formula I found for calculating the counter weight:
CW x A = (CA x B) + (BE + .5 x SE) x C where:
CW is the weight of the pair of counterweights
A is the distance from centerline axis of crankshaft to cg of counterweights
CA is the weight of the crank arm
B is the distance from centerline axis of crankshaft to cg of crank arm
BE is the big end weight of the connecting rod
.5 is a constant (good up to ~ 7000 RPM, increases to .55 @ 18,000RPM)
SE is the small end weight of the connecting rod including weight of piston, wrist pin, and rings
C is the distance from centerline axis of crankshaft to centerline of connecting rod journal (2.125 inches), (1/2 of 4.25 in. stroke)
CW is the weight of the pair of counterweights
A is the distance from centerline axis of crankshaft to cg of counterweights
CA is the weight of the crank arm
B is the distance from centerline axis of crankshaft to cg of crank arm
BE is the big end weight of the connecting rod
.5 is a constant (good up to ~ 7000 RPM, increases to .55 @ 18,000RPM)
SE is the small end weight of the connecting rod including weight of piston, wrist pin, and rings
C is the distance from centerline axis of crankshaft to centerline of connecting rod journal (2.125 inches), (1/2 of 4.25 in. stroke)
#22
piston/rod weights balance eachother out (like cyls 1/2 and 3/4) because they are always opposed in motion.
the crank counterweights are to counter the weight of the other counterweights
heavier crank doesnt transmit vibrations as much and doesn't flex so easily along its length...what patrick refers to as "whip"
the crank weights don't have any relation to the piston/rod weights, but the balance shafts DO.
the crank counterweights are to counter the weight of the other counterweights
heavier crank doesnt transmit vibrations as much and doesn't flex so easily along its length...what patrick refers to as "whip"
the crank weights don't have any relation to the piston/rod weights, but the balance shafts DO.
#25
I have had a knifed crank, aluminum fly wheel, lighter after market rods, pistons etc. I did not get that big a drop in torque. I was basically running square at around 375 hp and 380 ft-lbs. All you are doing is decreasing your rotating mass for quicker revs. The down side is you are losing rotating mass, the extra rotating mass makes it easier to get the car going from a stop, i.e. it is harder to stall. For a street car this can add to the difficulty of daily driving. In a track car less so as you don't have as many dead starts.
#26
Thanks to all of you. My car is slightly modified ( crank scaper, vitesse chip, vitesse stealth turbo, head porting). I'm planning a major rebuit due to oïl consumption and i want to do some more upgrade while i'm there. I'm litlle confused by you answers. My goal is to have a better car on the track and still drivable on the road. i was planning to knife edging and balancing the crank and lightning the stock flywheel.
#27
I've not built a race engine for one of these cars but have followed the fortunes of those who have and know a few buddies who have experimented. My conclusion is that engine harmonics (vibration) is a serious issue with these high vol 4 cylinder motors and Porsche clearly put a lot of deign effort into managing this with crank design, balance shafts, front crank pulley and even the torque tube. My observation of others experiences is that meddling with any of these components leads to an increase likelihood of vibration induced failures.
I think the message from the majority of those who have responded is that for a fast road/DE car, crank lightning is not a great idea and that you would be better advised to putting $$ into ensuring the stock engine spec is up to scratch (rings, bearings, valves) and the same with suspension with judicious upgrades to suspension rubber, sways, shocks and springs to make it quicker round the track and still enjoyable and reliable on the road.
I have replaced/upgraded all the rubber bushings on my car and moved to Bilstein escort suspension with turbo cup car springs and 968CS swaybars and that has made a huge difference to the car ... so far I've resisted playing with the engine too much
I think the message from the majority of those who have responded is that for a fast road/DE car, crank lightning is not a great idea and that you would be better advised to putting $$ into ensuring the stock engine spec is up to scratch (rings, bearings, valves) and the same with suspension with judicious upgrades to suspension rubber, sways, shocks and springs to make it quicker round the track and still enjoyable and reliable on the road.
I have replaced/upgraded all the rubber bushings on my car and moved to Bilstein escort suspension with turbo cup car springs and 968CS swaybars and that has made a huge difference to the car ... so far I've resisted playing with the engine too much