thesmokingman

H2O2, or hydrogen peroxide is also another good alternative.

"The reason for hydrogen peroxide is this: alcohol both directly and indirectly raises the engine's ability to utilize oxygen(and increases the octane rating), by suppressing the tendency to "knock," or detonate. Because hydrogen peroxide releases oxygen when compressed and/or heated, it makes a good delivery system to get more oxygen into the cylinders. Simply put, higher octane + more oxygen + knock suppression = advanced ignition timing + more power & efficiency."

"Hydrogen peroxide or H2O2 in vapor form has about half the oxygen of atmospheric O2. So that means peroxide has 2.5 times the oxygen molecule for molecule as air does (20% oxygen). So its just like injecting liquid air."

Sean Hall

FYI, pure h2o2 is liquid rocket fuel.

Laust,
Would love to see some pics of your setup.

Sean

thesmokingman

Come on, what is rocket fuel? I don't know, but I do know what is hydrogen peroxide.

http://www.h2o2.com/

I like ya Sean, but maybe you should checkout the chemical first? I didn't know liquid rocket fuel was good for cuts and scrapes too?

Bengt Sweden

Concentrated Hydrogen peroxide is extremely dangerous and nothing to play with if you are not familiar with all the safety procedures.

Bengt

thesmokingman

All sarcasm aside, heh, I'm talking about the 3% h2o2 and 97% h20 concentration that you can buy at the local market guys. Come on, throw me a bone here.

Tomas L

From http://www.h2o2.com/intro/hazard.html

"And with H2O2, concentration can mean the difference between toothpaste and rocket fuel. "

thesmokingman

Okay, okay. You got me. But I never said go and explode yourselves up? Ahh, it doesn't matter. Forget the h2o2 do whatever you want.

Jfrahm

They also sell H2O2 as non-chlorine shock for hot tubs. The trouble with it, I suppose, is that you never really know to what extent it's lost the extra O (and therefore how much extra fuel to provide along with it.)

-Joel.

TurboTommy

Laust P. I know you said you didn't have dyno facts. It doesn't matter. But, did you actually feel the difference. Yeh, I bet it will almost never detonate, but even slightly too much water ( in the intake tract ) and you will lose power because the flame speed in your combustion chamber slows down too much and therefore peak cylinder pressures are greatly reduced. Liquid intercooling ( external intercooler spraying is not nearly as good ) is a great thing but if you use mostly water you need surprisingly little. Also: you WANT to displace the air in your intake tract; that is the whole point of "cooling by evaporation". If this doesn't happen, you will not have a denser charge; you will just have almost raw water in your combustion chamber and will lose even more power. Ask me how I know.

Laust Pedersen

Sean,
Being new to this list I have not uploaded pictures before, but I am just pushing some buttons here, so let's see what happens. With luck there should be some comments to the pictures as well.

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Manifoldswap.JPG
Bought another manifold on eBay to play with. I had some bosses welded in, but there are other options. I made a water manifold from ¼” copper tube (or is it pipe?)

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Waterspray.JPG
Here I tried it out “off-line”. You may be able to see the water mist.

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Installedmanifold.JPG
Installed manifold

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Waterplumbing.JPG
Here is some of the aluminum water plumbing, with the windshield washer tank as a reservoir. The big brass fitting is a water filter.

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Wa...p&solenoid.JPG
This was the only place I could find for the water pump and solenoid, so it may not fit when std. suspension is used (there may be smaller pumps though).

Laust

Laust Pedersen

TurboTommy,

I stand by what I said in my previous response namely that I probably got a 5-10% power increase, especially noticeable in 1st gear since the induction system starts out hot. In the near future I will measure some runs with water on and off using either a “Road-Dyno” (which I have) or a G-Tech-Pro (which I ought to have).

I still think it is slightly better to inject water droplets into the cylinders for evaporation there as opposed to steam generated by further upstream injection, essentially extracting calories from the combustion chamber walls, off loading the radiator a bit. The truth is more complicated to find analytically than I intend to “unravel”, so I’ll just stick with my belief for now.

Thesmokingman,
BTW, I forgot to mention that I also spray my intercooler from the front with two nozzles, but this is hidden and difficult to get a picture of.

Laust

thesmokingman

Thats a nice setup you have there. Looks very intricate and time consuming. Nice job.

Most of the systems I've seen, or setups have been more upstream than your setup. You are braver than I.

Here's a link to Jorge's setup on a 02 Auto Wagon. Now before you guys start joking, his wagon does low 12's in the 1/4, with an auto. His setup uses straight up methyl alcohol, ie washer fluid and it allows him to push about 22psi. In Subaru land, thats kinda high, since Subaru tends to tune much like Porsche, ie lower boost. Anyways, its a good read, and he has a few dyno pics as well.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=414556

My kit is in the mail as I type this. Woohoo.
Also, the kit I posted earlier, has an option to be controlled by the ecu, which is nice to have albeit only for Subies.

* BTW, thats a nice stable of vehicles...

MySwiss

Thesmokigman.
It's funny,that you know Jorge from Nasioc,cause he's done some impressive things with that Subie,considering it's an automatic. he also helped a hole bunch of us (ya,I had a ricer Rex before),find the limits of the car.

Anyway,it's always helpful,to look at what else is going on ,besides the Porsche world.

thesmokingman

His car is pretty insane isn't it?

You might be interested in his install notes on nasioc too. He's just incredibly thorough and it shows in the results that he achieves with the bastard child that is the 4eat WRX.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=413223