George D

I've never posted about my "sold" bad *** EVO. Maybe I should Google this.

My only interest on Rennlist is to share keen work towards the 951. The turbo installed in the pictures shared was built-assembled by TIAL. Tial has continued great business relations with Garrett, BorgWarner, etc. as partners. This turbo was designed with my engine, dyno results, and my input towards their design for my car. Steve, Applications Engineer and Marketing Manager for TIAL was my primary contact, but the CEO and other folks were part of the ended turbo build.

The unit uses Garrett's dual BB/bronze cage - CHRA. The compressor wheel is TIAL's HTA, and the housing is TIAL's stainless steel.

This unit isn't on Tial's website. www.tialsport.com. I think the largest retailer of the HTA - TIAL units is http://store.forcedperformance.net/P...GT3582HTA.html.

This unit is similar to what you can purchase from FP. This turbo is most efficient at 18psi, with little change up to 23psi. My Duramax sees up to 38psi when on stage 4, but it's a bad *** diesel, not my inline 4 tractor motor.

Regards,

George

Paulyy

RPM doesn't concern the turbo..

a 3L will push the same amount of exhaust gas as a 1.8L but the 3L doesn't have to rev as much as it's over 1/3 larger displacement.

More pressure the turbo pushes through the engine, the more exhaust gas comes out of the engine to turn the turbo more.

Your 8k @ 30psi is very invalid.

If you said the turbo works real great at 30psi with x amount of CFM then that's a different story. Which is how you choose a turbo.

George D

V-Band only. Easy deal. PM me.

G

George D

No, TIAL only. Sean Martinez designed this with TIAL. PM me for a contact to TIAL. Easiest way to incorporate a Garrett turbo in our cars.

G

George D

OT:

Pauley,

I'll be in Melbourne over the XMAS holiday. Please PM me, love to meet. I'll be there with my family. My daughter is on exchange from the U of A! My close bud, Chris Stillwell, lives in Melbourne and we're sharing the holiday!

Send me your contact info to: Gdarling@darlingfg.com

G

Paulyy

I've send an email!

Thom

It has been recently proven that 30psi of boost with a GTX3582R 0.82 can be run on a 3.0 8V engine, but it will require a "very aggressive" camshaft profile vs a "low" static compression ratio that pushes the knock threshold accordingly high on the resulting boost vs timing diagram of the complete set up.

Such an engine may be a beast on the very narrow powerband corresponding to the sweet spot of the turbo, but may be a dog to drive for the let's say ~80% rest of the real-life usable powerband on a street car.

Now if we try to stay reasonable for half a second and look at what was done by the factory (for what it's worth), the 968 turbo RS uses a K27/11, which is a "large" hotside combined with a 52 lbs/min (~520hp) compressor, which sounds conservative by modern standards for a 3.0 engine, but that was using the particularly restrictive 951 (5R) camshaft designed for a "low" compression ratio and a compressor with "limited" flow such as the K26.

If we factor-in the limited flow capability of the 8V head, intake manifold and stock camshaft combo, we understand why a "large" capacity turbo engine engine with "limited" flow capability will always perform "better" with a "large" turbine and a "limited" compressor.

Rod was running the same HTA3582R as now George on his 3.0 8V and got great response with a twin scroll set up, but the GT35 0.82 hotside will perform well enough already, especially in the "high" powerband for which the SFR intake is tuned.

To make it short : check your cam, your CR and the shape of the powerband you are looking for when shopping for a turbo.

Have fun.

333pg333

Good post Thom!

Cyberpunky

I would be interested in catching up too George. Pauly can keep me in the loop, if that's ok ?

George D

Sure. I'll be in Sydney from 12/20 to 12/23 staying at the Mantra, then Melbourne from 12/24 to 12/26 staying at the Sheraton. Then New Zealand for a week, both islands!

Tsmith84

Soooooo... Did you get it going yet? Curious of your impressions.

George D

Close. Installing the factory cooling parts with the 4" intake is taking some R&D time. I'll be driving it next week, and will give a good write up.

G

George D

Good read:

We have been direct with the guys over at Forced Performance for some time now. With all the GTX vs HTA questions being asked, I decided to ask the turbocharger master himself. Mr. Robert Young (Owner Of FP)

Quote
The GTX is a carry over from OEM applications where noise control is very very important. While it is a newer aero package, it does make sacrifices to be a quiet as it is. Typically all full blade designs are used for targeting a narrow band of operating conditions on a compressor map, and we initially investigated doing this as well in 2005 when we began our design proccess for the HTA wheel aero package. Ultimately we abandonded it due to the limitations that the full blade style puts on the width of the operating map. The HTA (actually HTA15) surpasses the performance of the full blade variants on both the surge and choke flow ends of the compressor map, oddly enough these are the exact 2 regions of the map that most people operate in without even knowing it and this is why the HTA outperforms the GTX when compared head to head with matching inducer diameters. In my trip the the MHI turbocharger research laboratories in Nagasaki in the summer of 2011 I was introduced first hand to the extreme effort these OEM put into noise control for aero on compressor wheels, it is their number 1 concern - this shocked me. They do not focus on 5:1 pressure ratios, they dont focus on surge line compressor efficiency, they dont focus on flat RPM lines and wide maps - they want the turbo to be quiet - end of story. Mercedes doesnt want to buy loud turbochargers.

The GTX is not a blank page design for high power small engines, it is something Garrett already created for an Motor Company and it was billet, so it fit the marcket needs. For example it does not take the blade thickness down to the minimum, it places a higher priority on million mile powertrain warranty performance. Ever had a race car that ran for a million miles on the same turbocharger?

The HTA was designed as a blank page effort targeting ONLY high pressure ratio efficiency (5:1), surge line efficiency, and flat RPM lines thru as much of the map as possible. To this day we do a steady stream of GTX conversions to HTA, if you know anyone that needs any pull-off GTX wheels, give me a ring.

333pg333

Interesting read George. Bottom line, I think this will clearly be the best turbo you've had on your car...by a margin.

So when are we going to see a comprehensive update on your car? Videos, maps, pics etc??

Thom

Funny how some builders boast about their turbos being better than others without backing their claims by at leat publishing their compressor maps. Just saying.