Who says 951's arent any good at AX?
11-10-2014, 09:08 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Encinitas, ca PCA National DE instructor PCA San Diego chief driving instructor
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
2 Posts
Who says 951's arent any good at AX?
I've been having an epic battle this year in my class (CC-10) with two other guys, one a modified Boxter, the other a Cayman R, all of us on Kumho R tires (slicks with "DOT legal" grooves).
Sunday we finished 1, 2, 3 (3rd, 4th, and 5th top time of day out of 103 entries), .64 seconds between 1st and 3rd. We beat all the GT-3 RS guys, and there are a few.
This is on an admittedly fast AX course typical of San Diego region PCA, speeds ranging from mid second gear to top-of-third.
Sunday we finished 1, 2, 3 (3rd, 4th, and 5th top time of day out of 103 entries), .64 seconds between 1st and 3rd. We beat all the GT-3 RS guys, and there are a few.
This is on an admittedly fast AX course typical of San Diego region PCA, speeds ranging from mid second gear to top-of-third.
11-10-2014, 11:39 PM
#4
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Encinitas, ca PCA National DE instructor PCA San Diego chief driving instructor
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
2 Posts
The GT-3 guys can't use their power as much as we can use our prepared chassis, and I guess we out drove them this time, but they were right behind us.
As for the chassis changes to my car, mine's an '89 with a full on track setup.
725/870 on JIC coil overs, all mono ***** and delrin - no rubber in the chassis anywhere - Elephant trailing arm bushings, racers Edge 4130 control arms, 968 M030 bars, hard core track alignment, 275s on 9'' square, race roll bar tied to the rear suspension, halo seats, LR huge oil cooler, brake line and pad upgrades, boost and AFR gauges etc etc. No stone unturned.
Power wise it's A-tune with logger on race gas map/MBC set at 18 psi/3" exhaust/race prepped head/burning race gas. Otherwise the car is stock, with AC, stereo, cruise bla bla bla.
So, the car is not super powerful, but powerful enough considering the lack of straights. Those top-of-third gear sections are usually fast sweepers.
The Cayman and Boxter I'm running against are also prepared cars, but not as extensively as mine. That's why we're in the same class.
As for the chassis changes to my car, mine's an '89 with a full on track setup.
725/870 on JIC coil overs, all mono ***** and delrin - no rubber in the chassis anywhere - Elephant trailing arm bushings, racers Edge 4130 control arms, 968 M030 bars, hard core track alignment, 275s on 9'' square, race roll bar tied to the rear suspension, halo seats, LR huge oil cooler, brake line and pad upgrades, boost and AFR gauges etc etc. No stone unturned.
Power wise it's A-tune with logger on race gas map/MBC set at 18 psi/3" exhaust/race prepped head/burning race gas. Otherwise the car is stock, with AC, stereo, cruise bla bla bla.
So, the car is not super powerful, but powerful enough considering the lack of straights. Those top-of-third gear sections are usually fast sweepers.
The Cayman and Boxter I'm running against are also prepared cars, but not as extensively as mine. That's why we're in the same class.
Last edited by LUCKY DAVE; 11-12-2014 at 12:45 AM. Reason: forgot something...duh
11-11-2014, 01:06 AM
#6
The GT-3 guys can't use their power as much as we can use our prepared chassis, and I guess we out drove them this time, but they were right behind us.
As for the chassis changes to my car, mine's an '89 with a full on track setup.
725/870 on JIC coil overs, all mono ***** and delrin - no rubber in the chassis anywhere - Elephant trailing arm bushings, racers Edge 4130 control arms, 968 M030 bars, hard core track alignment, 275s on 9'' square, race roll bar tied to the rear suspension, halo seats, etc etc. No stone unturned.
Power wise it's A-tune on race gas map/3" exhaust/race prepped head/burning race gas. Otherwise the car is stock, with AC, stereo, cruise bla bla bla.
So, the car is not super powerful, but powerful enough considering the lack of straights. Those top-of-third gear sections are usually fast sweepers.
The Cayman and Boxter I'm running against are also prepared cars, but not as extensively as mine. That's why we're in the same class.
As for the chassis changes to my car, mine's an '89 with a full on track setup.
725/870 on JIC coil overs, all mono ***** and delrin - no rubber in the chassis anywhere - Elephant trailing arm bushings, racers Edge 4130 control arms, 968 M030 bars, hard core track alignment, 275s on 9'' square, race roll bar tied to the rear suspension, halo seats, etc etc. No stone unturned.
Power wise it's A-tune on race gas map/3" exhaust/race prepped head/burning race gas. Otherwise the car is stock, with AC, stereo, cruise bla bla bla.
So, the car is not super powerful, but powerful enough considering the lack of straights. Those top-of-third gear sections are usually fast sweepers.
The Cayman and Boxter I'm running against are also prepared cars, but not as extensively as mine. That's why we're in the same class.
11-11-2014, 02:16 AM
#7
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Encinitas, ca PCA National DE instructor PCA San Diego chief driving instructor
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
2 Posts
Those of you that have or have had race cars, already know this...but not everyone has raced, or ridden in one.....
Cars seriously prepared for track use are absolutely miserable on the street.
It's not just the spring rates, though they result in a car that hops and skips annoyingly on bumpy *** public roads. It can be violent on the wrong road.
A no compromise track alignment and slicks results in a car that turns in like a scalpel - and follows every surface imperfection, darting all over the place. You can't let go of the wheel except on a very smooth level road, and then not for long. A twenty mile ride on a typical SoCal concrete freeway beats you to jelly.
Containment seats mean there's no peripheral vision, you can't see the car next to you, never mind seeing enough to safely change lanes. You can't even turn your head (much). You can't squirm around or change position because a race seat that fits you correctly has you locked firmly into position. If your back cramps or your a$$ goes to sleep, too bad. Climbing in through a cage is totally practical at the grocery store.
Monoballs are noisy, they transmit every bit of road noise and creak and groan if not cleaned and lubed every track day.
In short, the ride is brutal.
Cars seriously prepared for track use are absolutely miserable on the street.
It's not just the spring rates, though they result in a car that hops and skips annoyingly on bumpy *** public roads. It can be violent on the wrong road.
A no compromise track alignment and slicks results in a car that turns in like a scalpel - and follows every surface imperfection, darting all over the place. You can't let go of the wheel except on a very smooth level road, and then not for long. A twenty mile ride on a typical SoCal concrete freeway beats you to jelly.
Containment seats mean there's no peripheral vision, you can't see the car next to you, never mind seeing enough to safely change lanes. You can't even turn your head (much). You can't squirm around or change position because a race seat that fits you correctly has you locked firmly into position. If your back cramps or your a$$ goes to sleep, too bad. Climbing in through a cage is totally practical at the grocery store.
Monoballs are noisy, they transmit every bit of road noise and creak and groan if not cleaned and lubed every track day.
In short, the ride is brutal.
Trending Topics
11-11-2014, 03:22 AM
#9
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
. The hottest ticket would be to combine the high-protein engine and the stout suspension pieces in a 944 stripped of frills – a no nonsense fighter read for any mission from hauling groceries to turning a couple of laps at Le Mans.
11-11-2014, 04:05 PM
#10
First off - sounds like you've got a seriously well prepared 951.
Second off - 2nd and top-of-third AX courses? I am BEYOND jealous.
Third off - taking the first two things into account, I don't doubt the 951 is incredibly capable and competitive on courses that have speeds like that. 2nd/3rd gear stuff is more like a "short road course" than a typical autocross. My car always fared better on faster courses, could usually run up there in the top 3 PAX if not near FTD. It was the slower, mid-2nd-gear-tops courses that I started to lose ground, especially with the stock turbo gearing.
Still... very cool. Very very cool. If I ever move to LA (slight chance that may actually happen in the next few years for work), I just might plan to make the trek down to SD to run some of those events. Those courses sound insanely fun.
Second off - 2nd and top-of-third AX courses? I am BEYOND jealous.
Third off - taking the first two things into account, I don't doubt the 951 is incredibly capable and competitive on courses that have speeds like that. 2nd/3rd gear stuff is more like a "short road course" than a typical autocross. My car always fared better on faster courses, could usually run up there in the top 3 PAX if not near FTD. It was the slower, mid-2nd-gear-tops courses that I started to lose ground, especially with the stock turbo gearing.
Still... very cool. Very very cool. If I ever move to LA (slight chance that may actually happen in the next few years for work), I just might plan to make the trek down to SD to run some of those events. Those courses sound insanely fun.
11-13-2014, 12:45 AM
#13
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Encinitas, ca PCA National DE instructor PCA San Diego chief driving instructor
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
2 Posts
Wow top of third gear.
We could do it every time - we have the room - but as safety officer I won't allow it because we have newbies in 500+ horsepower cars, and I would have to fill out endless paperwork if we got one hurt or killed.....
Besides, instructors get grumpy when I tell them they have to instruct "Tommy Testosterone" in one of those monsters
11-14-2014, 11:08 AM
#14
The GT-3 guys can't use their power as much as we can use our prepared chassis, and I guess we out drove them this time, but they were right behind us.
As for the chassis changes to my car, mine's an '89 with a full on track setup.
725/870 on JIC coil overs, all mono ***** and delrin - no rubber in the chassis anywhere - Elephant trailing arm bushings, racers Edge 4130 control arms, 968 M030 bars, hard core track alignment, 275s on 9'' square, race roll bar tied to the rear suspension, halo seats, LR huge oil cooler, brake line and pad upgrades, boost and AFR gauges etc etc. No stone unturned.
Power wise it's A-tune with logger on race gas map/MBC set at 18 psi/3" exhaust/race prepped head/burning race gas. Otherwise the car is stock, with AC, stereo, cruise bla bla bla.
So, the car is not super powerful, but powerful enough considering the lack of straights. Those top-of-third gear sections are usually fast sweepers.
The Cayman and Boxter I'm running against are also prepared cars, but not as extensively as mine. That's why we're in the same class.
As for the chassis changes to my car, mine's an '89 with a full on track setup.
725/870 on JIC coil overs, all mono ***** and delrin - no rubber in the chassis anywhere - Elephant trailing arm bushings, racers Edge 4130 control arms, 968 M030 bars, hard core track alignment, 275s on 9'' square, race roll bar tied to the rear suspension, halo seats, LR huge oil cooler, brake line and pad upgrades, boost and AFR gauges etc etc. No stone unturned.
Power wise it's A-tune with logger on race gas map/MBC set at 18 psi/3" exhaust/race prepped head/burning race gas. Otherwise the car is stock, with AC, stereo, cruise bla bla bla.
So, the car is not super powerful, but powerful enough considering the lack of straights. Those top-of-third gear sections are usually fast sweepers.
The Cayman and Boxter I'm running against are also prepared cars, but not as extensively as mine. That's why we're in the same class.
11-22-2014, 04:19 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
I took 3rd in the 2013 PCA mod class against full race prepared 911's stripped to the bone. Most of the cars in that class were much lighter and not even street legal. My car looks (LOL) stock including AC. I am even running the stock 25 year old suspension on it upgraded with M030 (968) swaybars. The temps that day were over 100 deg. I enjoyed watching the other drivers sweat it out between runs while I sat nice and cool in my car. The 951 is an amazing car. Not a perfect AX car but very capable.