SummitP

What's up everyone, I've been lurking for a while, and now that I have my very own 951, I thought I would introduce myself, and show you my car! I picked up a 1989 944 turbo (s spec) with 143k miles. It runs well, but needs a little TLC. I bought it in Chicago and drove the 1500 miles back to Park City UT the past weekend. It ran beautifully, if a little tired. I had a shop in Chi town do a leak down test, so I know the motor is healthy. First item of business is the timing belt and water pump. 7 years ago, (yes 7, I rolled the dice driving home) and 22k ago, it had the timing belt done. But it did not have the water pump done at the same time, so it is time to rip into it. I did, and immediately found an oily mixture in the pressurized cold pipe from the intercooler to the throttle body, so I suspect that the aos seals are bad. My timing belt parts are in the mail, so I decided to rip into it tonight.
Here are a few pics of the car, and the start to my little project.



Nebraska sucks. It goes on, and on, and on......... and on, and on.....


Finally made she pulled into her new home in Park City, UT.


I pulled the plugs to check them out, and they were tired tired tired. Hmm, a little deferred maintenance me thinks... I dropped some NGK BPR6ES plugs in and that helped a little bit, but I suspected that the cap and rotor were tired as well, and indeed they were.



I ripped into it further, and pulled out the intercooler piping, and what did I find? Some oily crap resting at the bottom. The car consumed about 1 quart per 700 miles, and while some folks say that is normal, that doesn't seem normal to me. So with the oil in the intercooler pipe, I suspect back AOS seals. Maybe you guys can suggest some other causes? Also means the intercooler needs to come out to be cleaned so that it can actually do it's job effectively.



So the timing belt and front end seal kit are in the mail.
Cheers, and look forward to many miles of speedy fun!

ehall

Was this car on the road before you bought it, or sitting? If mostly sitting, I would flush everything and rinse out the IC, then check it again. If it is still there, there could be a few things. Hopefully it isn't the AOS, because it's a giant PITA, but at least it's cheap. Well it's cheap until you find all of the other stuff you want to fix. lol

Congrats on the new car! Nice!

SummitP

It was occasionally driven. The po lives in a big city with tight blocks, so he couldn't really drive it how it was meant to be driven, that was his reason for selling. Made total sense when I got to his house and went for a test drive. Barely made it out of 1st gear. I am definitely going to pull the ic and clean it. But with my oil consumption and the oily residue in the intake, I am worried about the aos seals. I'll keep you posted.

NM'87 951

Super jelly, she looks lovely. Blown AOS seals sounds like the most likely culprit, if you plan to get into her for a water pump anyhow might as well replace those and clean everything up. Then you'll know that's off the list if it comes back after rebuilding.

More pics please, we love vicarious living

Tom M'Guinn

Welcome to rennlist -- great looking car! Oil in the charge pipes is very common, as the system is designed to vent oil vapors back to the intake. When turbo seals get old and/or crankcase pressure increases (from higher boost, old rings, etc.) the amount of oil increases. What AOS seals are you thinking of changing? The O-rings used to mount the aos to the block are a pain to replace with the motor all assembled, and I doubt they would have any impact on the oil you are seeing in the intake pipes...

raleighBahn

Welcome to the Island of Misfit Toys. Before you go much further, know that there are many alternatives to the 951 that are better for your financial solvency, marriage, health, and career. A raging cocaine habit, junk bonds, becoming involved at the lowest level in pyramid schemes, running up large gambling debts.... all I would suggest to you in lieu of this. Even if you were to hand the title and keys over to Lart tomorrow, accepting no payment, will put you ahead before 18 months have elapsed. Bookmark this reply for posterity

If you are still unswayed, then I say go gingerly, learn the car. They do indeed drink oil. Do all of the regular filters and maintenance, clean your grounds, replace the things that will kill you in the night (like fuel lines), and of course you are on right track with timing belt and etc. Do the rod bearings while you're at it. Welcome aboard.

SummitP

What the hell is this thing? It was sitting on the frontmost belly pan, or groundeffects, peice, what ever you want to call it, and it was just sitting there, not attached to anything, missing the back panel, just kind of there...



I'm going to start researching the aos, and turbo removal, because if that job is significantly easier to tackle with the stuff I already have taken apart, then what the hell right?

raleighBahn

Looks like a dme pulled from the oven at 400 degrees. Those black plastic poles are what snaps it together (it unfolds).

SummitP

thanks raleigh, I appreciate the words and advice. I think that i have a car that is in pretty good overall condition, just a few rough edges to clear up. This ain't my first rodeo when it comes to cars, I have had several interesting cars over the last decade, and I love working on them. My cars have gone as follows,
1992 Toyota MR2 turbo, put a larger turbo on, blew motor on racetrack, swapped in healthy motor, built suspension, finally sold that car after owning it for 11 years.
1986 944 spec race car. That car was fun, pretty reliable, and was a lot easier to work on than the MR2.
1988 BMW 325ix, awd, 5 spd, coupe, sport package, and that got a healthy motor swapped into it, and a suspension rebuild, that was a great car. Sold that one just under a year ago.
1991 Toyota Land Cruiser, swapped in a healthy transmission, and then just beat on it for years.

I am under no false pretenses, I expect to spend some money to get this car where I want it, but currently, with the exception of the timing belt, and possibly the aos, all the car needs is a basic tune up. It drove very well all the way across the country, and I trust it already, more than I used to trust (or not trust) my 2006 Audi A4, which after owning for 6 months, I couldn't get rid of fast enough. I plan on sending out the m030 koni units this winter to get rebuilt and revalved, I plan on stiffer springs all around, (rate to be determined) and I have already had some joyous experience reindexing torsion bars on a 944. Bushings will get done. After that is all done, I will consider the car more or less ready to start modding, and my goals right now (they always change and evolve right!) are fairly modest, car when it is done needs to be a great high speed commuter car, I have a great canyon to drive to get to work in the summer time, and it also needs to be able to handle a few track days a year.
So... lets have some fun with this thing, and look for some innovative ways to fix things as we go along. I have done a lot of searching on the forum, and I know it is a tremendous resource, so I hope that as I go, I can begin to contribute some to the knowledge base.

SummitP

Seriously? I thought the DME lived under the passengers feet? I haven't looked there yet... but that is what I hear. Also, I have a hard time beleiving that the owner would have left the dme there in that position for years and years, as he had it opened up, and had the autothority chips and banjo bolt removed, and placed into their original packaging.
Anyway, if that is the dme, that kind of freaks me out. It can't be, there are 28 pins on dme right? There are light 3 skinny wires going into this mystery open air box. Maybe it is an advanced weather detection device.

SummitP

I recall seeing oil in the charge pipes of my MR2 as well, same issue, little bit of oil blow by. So I don't think the rings are tired despite the mileage. I had a leakdown test done by Midwest Performance Cars in chicago before I purchased the car, and it came back very good, something like 5%, 5%, 6%, 8%, (I have the actual numbers in my 10 page inspection report) all 4 cyls were under 10%.
My oil consumption was about 1 quart per 700 miles, as I used 2 quarts to drive home, and it was about a 1500 mile drive. It is on the original un rebuilt turbo, so it could very well be getting tired. It boosts well, and it doesn't blow any white smoke. One thing I did notice, was that after spirited driving, I smell a little bit of oil, smells like it is landing on the crossover pipe, or down pipe, though it has never been enough to smoke. My research has shown that it may be a leaky aos seal on the block if you get a bit of oil on the pipes under boost. Does that sound right?
I'll know more as I get in there some more this week.

Tom M'Guinn

Remote radar detector?

Sixline

This. The O-rings used to mount it would have very little to do with oil in the intercooler/intercooler pipes. Mine were leaking like a sieve and I replaced them when I upgraded the turbo. Without pulling the turbo I don't think you could even remove the AOS.

As Tom said, old turbo seals are most likely the culprit.

ehall

Completely agree. Changing the AOS seals is a MAJOR pain in the ***. If oil isn't spraying out of the seals, I'd leave them. LOL You have to pull the turbo to get to them.

raleighBahn

Your dme is most certainly installed under footwell, although this UFO you pulled out looks similar. Crack it open and and what it is. Tom's guess on radar is a good one.