mc05duck

Hi Everyone,

I purchased my first '86 951 6 months ago a bit impulsively with 95k miles with the idea of converting it to an LS3 525HP v8 sleeper. Obviously, I'm on a budget and am saving to get it there, but want to enjoy this car along the way. So, I had the timing belts replaced, did a vacuum lines upgrade and put in a vitesse boost chip. At this point, the car still needs a new clutch (5-10% remaining or $3k job), the power steering is leaking something fierce (I've been quoted $2k to have that system 100% restored), I need to replace the worn brake rotors (something I figure I can do myself as a newbie to anything mechanical), and there are some oil leaks.

I just want to get a sense for what some of you might do at this point if this was your project?

1. Should I try to sell mine and buy one already in better shape or someone's project that has the investment sunk cost already completed?

I see some real nice 951's for sale on here with 55-75k miles, in near mint condition going for $13.5k. And I've seen some super built 951's for around $18-20k.

2. Should I just go the route of restoring my car?

Clutch, power steering, brakes for around $5k. Then do the engine upgrades to get the power up to a fun level I'd enjoy...such as 300-350HP at the rear wheel. I figure with a new Exhaust system and wastegate, for about $1.5k, that would get me around the mid 250 HP? Then look into a bigger turbo...

3. Should I go for the LS3 V8 complete swap, that I've been quoted by Renegade for around $25k?

This would require ensuring the rest of the car also be upgraded to handle huge power, brakes, power steering still is a need, and a rebuilt transmission solution.

I'm leaning towards the OPTION #2 at this point, but would appreciate anyone's pulse as they've gone through similar decision points with their 951 projects.

The intent of the car is fun and something I'll own for a long while, I'm not going to be racing it at the track every summer weekend, but I plan to learn how to drive it on the track. This is a car I want to be able to take out for a weekend getaway and punch it on some deserted roads and highways, enjoy true performance.

aglaes

Not an expert, but in my opinion, if your goal is to spend the least amount of money on a well sorted car, you're definitely better off buying one that is already well sorted. The cost of parts and labor for major repairs/restoration will probably always cost more than what these cars are worth in the market. They just aren't that rare or that sought after.

Maybe someday down the road they will begin appreciate - after a few thousand more are scrapped, parted or turned into track cars, maybe the really nice original or slightly modified cars will increase in value, especially the '88S and '89 models.

Brantley

I've bought and sold several of these cars. My advice to prospective buyers is that doing your own wrenching is a must. If not wrenching yourself, the repair / labor costs will FAR surpass the value of the car which would lead me to question the true value of the car over others...

The first option I see for you would be to learn to do the work yourself. Invest in some tools, study rennlist, pelican, clarks-garage, and all of the other resources available and struggle through these items. Take your time, and do things right. The money saved will be immense...

If you don't have the time or the location to work on it yourself, as option 2 I would suggest selling it and buying a sorted one with all the important receipts (clutch, timing belt, etc). In the long run, you will save money.

However, in the end, if you really like the car, and don't care about losing a lot of money by paying to have these items done, then go for it... These cars are a blast to drive and when all of the maintenance and repairs are caught up can be reliable.

Good luck!
Mike

Dave W.

It sounds like there's plenty of small jobs needed on the chassis before you consider a V8 swap. I'd spend some time to get it sorted out first. Since your engine is running good it may not be the best candidate for a V8swap. Ideally you should keep looking for a good 951 chassis with a bad engine that you can pick up for cheap. Meanwhile keep driving, fixing and enjoying your car. It doesn't make sense to mod the engine if you're just going to yank it out and swap in a V8.

odurandina

Go v8.

the v8 swap ain't cheap but renders a predictable/solid result.

it's what we need..... the alternative isn't just worse.... but, considerably worse.

there's very good value out there with the LM7/LQ9/L99s ect, and all the various other pullouts.

Paulyy

Where's the fun in finishing someone else's project?

v8 street projects IMO are for girls.

67King

It appears you don't turn your own wrenches. That being the case, you most certainly should buy a turn key car.

Also, $2K for fixing a PS leak seems beyond ridiculous to me.

FRporscheman

My 951 also has an obscene PS leak. I tracked it down to the main pressure hose going from the pump to the rack. Put the car on jacks and lie underneath while someone turns on the engine and turns the steering. Look to see where it leaks from. No need to have the rack rebuilt if it's just a loose fitting or busted hose.

Jfrahm

$2K per year is probably reasonable to spend if you do your own repair work and have another car to drive while you scrounge up parts and tools. That'd be after a significant expense to catch-up a used car that generally will have some issues (as yours does). Paying a shop would probably get into the $5K-$8K per year territory. Turbos generally double the cost of underhood maintenance and repair due to
1 - Having a turbo and related boost control and plumbing stuff (turbos never fail on NA cars)
2 - Much more underhood heat cooking stuff
3 - many more head gaskets fail on boosted cars
4 - Shorter oil life
5 - Much more object damage and bore damage on turbo cars

There are some threads on the V8 swaps, they would save a small amount of maintenance and repair money over a nearly stock car but might save a lot on a modded and tracked car. That is to say, a tracked modded turbo that cost $40K (including the chassis) over a few years might only cost $30K with a V8 swap. Swaps are big money (or very big time, scrounging and fabricating skill plus a pretty significant amount of money proposition).

The problem with all these scenarios, other than just writing a check for a V8 swap, is that they are pretty incremental and people get pretty deep into it without being realistic about how much time and money it's going to cost, and what that money might be used for instead. It's the kind of money that could fund a year-long sabbatical with world travel (on a budget but still) or being saved and invested towards retiring several years early or having financial freedom in your 50's.

In college some of my friends and I had big car builds that cost a lot and we also had ratty and cheap buckets (X-1/9, Fiat Spider, Sirocco, RX3, etc.) that we raced and wrenched on and maintained as cheaply as possible.

I honestly think we had way more fun with the cheap buckets. I had a blast with an Opel Kadette I bought for $50 with a busted rear axle and had on the road for about $100. I couldn't get into it in my Firebird except at the track or way out in the boonies, it was like setting off a bomb. The nitrous cars could not use the bottle on the street due to traction problems. The little beaters however we drove pretty hard whenever we liked.

Looking back I spent a ton of money and built a car that became too obnoxious to drive and it only impressed people I did not want to have sex with, and then had more fun in a $1500 sports car I left dead stock (and my girlfriend really liked it).

Also if you are going to the track and you are not already a really amazing driver, get something predictable and not too fast. Think 944NA or Miata. Fast cars are hard to learn on and eat expensive tires. It's also kinda embarrassing to get lapped by a much more modest car.

Anyway rant over.
-Joel.

Baptizo

I'm not sure about the cost to replace everything you've been quoted but they're on the high side. My PS lines were leaking like a sieve but the lines are available at Paragon and while not easy to replace, you should be able to do those yourself. Mine, like yours, also needs a clutch so I'm having a local shop tackle that one for me since I'm not inclined to do it on my back in the garage.

After not getting any interest in my '86, I'm having the clutch replaced for about a grand and the timing belt/rollers/waterpump/rad hoses for about $1,500. I'm also going to install a 2.5" B&B SS exhaust and Bilstein shocks.

goatfarmerdave

Good rant. Initial post-one minute you are saying budget,next 25k for a v8!!!? Budget approx 5k and learn how to do a lot yourself.Many used parts out there and new stuff isn't outrageous either.

mc05duck

Thanks everyone for weighing in. I think I'm going to fix the power steering leaks myself, install new brake rotors myself and make the clutch last a long as possible.

I'm still weighing selling the car and buy a well sorted LSX conversion, as the more I read, the more the LSX engines provide more power, more reliability, and less repairs & maintenance. Problem is finding one.

admiralkhole

Head over to 944hybrids.forumotion.com
There's a couple for sale.