another one of those "which turbo" threads
02-26-2015, 11:44 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
What kind of port work will you have done on the 2.7 head, if any, and do you plan to run the stock intake?
The only GT30-sized turbo I would use on a 3L would be a GTX3071R 1.06 with the stock intake, but I would move right away to a GT35-sized turbo with a "better" intake (LR or else), GT3582R, HTA3582R, GTX3576R or GTX3582R.
The only GT30-sized turbo I would use on a 3L would be a GTX3071R 1.06 with the stock intake, but I would move right away to a GT35-sized turbo with a "better" intake (LR or else), GT3582R, HTA3582R, GTX3576R or GTX3582R.
02-27-2015, 06:59 PM
#33
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dizzyj, what is your HP target? That should be the very first parameter chosen.
Then the engine displacement and mods follow from that HP target and the last step is choosing a turbo that has the flow-rate and pressure-ratios you need to hit your HP target.
Depending upon whether you wan 400bhp or 600bhp, the boost you need to run given your displacement and mods will be different and path through the compressor maps will be different. There's no one universal turbo that'll do both optimally. None of this "oh, I'll just run low boost now and turn it up later.". You'll end up with a turbo that'll laggy at 400bhp and falls flat on its face after 5000rpm at 600bhp.
Garrett GT turbos are incremental improvements over their T-series, which is World War II technology. IHI, Precision, Comp Turbo and BW EFR turbos are way, way better and more efficient. So what's your HP target?
Then the engine displacement and mods follow from that HP target and the last step is choosing a turbo that has the flow-rate and pressure-ratios you need to hit your HP target.
Depending upon whether you wan 400bhp or 600bhp, the boost you need to run given your displacement and mods will be different and path through the compressor maps will be different. There's no one universal turbo that'll do both optimally. None of this "oh, I'll just run low boost now and turn it up later.". You'll end up with a turbo that'll laggy at 400bhp and falls flat on its face after 5000rpm at 600bhp.
Garrett GT turbos are incremental improvements over their T-series, which is World War II technology. IHI, Precision, Comp Turbo and BW EFR turbos are way, way better and more efficient. So what's your HP target?
02-28-2015, 01:54 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
dizzyj, what is your HP target? That should be the very first parameter chosen.
Then the engine displacement and mods follow from that HP target and the last step is choosing a turbo that has the flow-rate and pressure-ratios you need to hit your HP target.
Depending upon whether you wan 400bhp or 600bhp, the boost you need to run given your displacement and mods will be different and path through the compressor maps will be different. There's no one universal turbo that'll do both optimally. None of this "oh, I'll just run low boost now and turn it up later.". You'll end up with a turbo that'll laggy at 400bhp and falls flat on its face after 5000rpm at 600bhp.
Garrett GT turbos are incremental improvements over their T-series, which is World War II technology. IHI, Precision, Comp Turbo and BW EFR turbos are way, way better and more efficient. So what's your HP target?
Then the engine displacement and mods follow from that HP target and the last step is choosing a turbo that has the flow-rate and pressure-ratios you need to hit your HP target.
Depending upon whether you wan 400bhp or 600bhp, the boost you need to run given your displacement and mods will be different and path through the compressor maps will be different. There's no one universal turbo that'll do both optimally. None of this "oh, I'll just run low boost now and turn it up later.". You'll end up with a turbo that'll laggy at 400bhp and falls flat on its face after 5000rpm at 600bhp.
Garrett GT turbos are incremental improvements over their T-series, which is World War II technology. IHI, Precision, Comp Turbo and BW EFR turbos are way, way better and more efficient. So what's your HP target?
Why do you feel the precision are more efficient? I can't find any specific data (compressor maps ect) for those.
02-28-2015, 02:38 PM
#35
Burning Brakes
I'd like to get as much hp as possible while maintaining a reliable and reasonably cost effective race motor. I don't have a specific hp goal. It doesn't make sense for me to say 600hp and have the motor only last 1 race. I'm targeting no more than 15lbs of boost as I feel that's the upper bounds of a reliable motor.
Why do you feel the precision are more efficient? I can't find any specific data (compressor maps ect) for those.
Why do you feel the precision are more efficient? I can't find any specific data (compressor maps ect) for those.
I have a PTE 5558 CEA on my 2.85L engine and it's great at 17psi, very responsive, quick spool and has the capacity to support over 500hp if I decide to crank it up someday. This turbo is similar in size, spoolup and overall power capacity to the GTX3071. The EFR 7670 is also a contender.
02-28-2015, 06:46 PM
#37
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Long time ago, about 15-years, Precision used to buy turbos from Garrett. Then they'd modify them and get better results than the original Garrett model. So Garrett cut them off. Similar thing with the Tial turbos based upon Garetts; they'll outperform similar-spec Garretts. That's why Garrett is cutting Tial off now as well; too embarrassing to have their old WWII technology improved so easily by 3rd parties.
Don't get boost mixed up with flow&mass. The 1st part to go is usually the headgasket. At 400bhp, it will experience the exact same BMEP and stress with 25psi on stock 2.5l or 20psi on a 2.5l with intake, head and exhaust mods. Boost is only an indicator of restrictions in the engine, but doesn't predict anything about internal stresses. Ultimately, it's the quality of the tune that determines reliability and durability regardless of boost level. So count on a standalone EFI, wideband O2 and lots of dyno tuning.
With your configuration of 3.3l w/8v head, using 15psi will put you in the 350-380bhp range. So a matching turbo would be a GTX28 series, BW S200 series, BW EFR-6258, Comp Turbo CT12x series. All these are good for the 350-500bhp range.
Don't get boost mixed up with flow&mass. The 1st part to go is usually the headgasket. At 400bhp, it will experience the exact same BMEP and stress with 25psi on stock 2.5l or 20psi on a 2.5l with intake, head and exhaust mods. Boost is only an indicator of restrictions in the engine, but doesn't predict anything about internal stresses. Ultimately, it's the quality of the tune that determines reliability and durability regardless of boost level. So count on a standalone EFI, wideband O2 and lots of dyno tuning.
With your configuration of 3.3l w/8v head, using 15psi will put you in the 350-380bhp range. So a matching turbo would be a GTX28 series, BW S200 series, BW EFR-6258, Comp Turbo CT12x series. All these are good for the 350-500bhp range.
Last edited by JacRyann; 02-28-2015 at 07:01 PM.
02-28-2015, 08:25 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
Long time ago, about 15-years, Precision used to buy turbos from Garrett. Then they'd modify them and get better results than the original Garrett model. So Garrett cut them off. Similar thing with the Tial turbos based upon Garetts; they'll outperform similar-spec Garretts. That's why Garrett is cutting Tial off now as well; too embarrassing to have their old WWII technology improved so easily by 3rd parties.
Don't get boost mixed up with flow&mass. The 1st part to go is usually the headgasket. At 400bhp, it will experience the exact same BMEP and stress with 25psi on stock 2.5l or 20psi on a 2.5l with intake, head and exhaust mods. Boost is only an indicator of restrictions in the engine, but doesn't predict anything about internal stresses. Ultimately, it's the quality of the tune that determines reliability and durability regardless of boost level. So count on a standalone EFI, wideband O2 and lots of dyno tuning.
With your configuration of 3.3l w/8v head, using 15psi will put you in the 350-380bhp range. So a matching turbo would be a GTX28 series, BW S200 series, BW EFR-6258, Comp Turbo CT12x series. All these are good for the 350-500bhp range.
Don't get boost mixed up with flow&mass. The 1st part to go is usually the headgasket. At 400bhp, it will experience the exact same BMEP and stress with 25psi on stock 2.5l or 20psi on a 2.5l with intake, head and exhaust mods. Boost is only an indicator of restrictions in the engine, but doesn't predict anything about internal stresses. Ultimately, it's the quality of the tune that determines reliability and durability regardless of boost level. So count on a standalone EFI, wideband O2 and lots of dyno tuning.
With your configuration of 3.3l w/8v head, using 15psi will put you in the 350-380bhp range. So a matching turbo would be a GTX28 series, BW S200 series, BW EFR-6258, Comp Turbo CT12x series. All these are good for the 350-500bhp range.
Yes those turbos will work but dependent on when and where you want your power band.
I have a 3.0 l with a GT30 making 425 bhp dyno'd at 16 psi boost. So I would anticipate significantly more with a 3.3 l, probably in the realm of 475 to 500 depending turbo and what boost he will be pushing.
In which case he is going to make me go bigger.
03-04-2015, 01:51 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
ok, so I now have a reason to go t4 flange, so I'm swinging back around to Precision. I like the idea of the ceramic dbb (no water). I'd like to target the efficiency ~5k rpms. i.e. more mid boost that pure peak performance. so in a precision, go with a 6262, 6266 or kick it up to a 6466? .68 ar or .81 ar?
03-04-2015, 10:16 AM
#40
Burning Brakes
ok, so I now have a reason to go t4 flange, so I'm swinging back around to Precision. I like the idea of the ceramic dbb (no water). I'd like to target the efficiency ~5k rpms. i.e. more mid boost that pure peak performance. so in a precision, go with a 6262, 6266 or kick it up to a 6466? .68 ar or .81 ar?