MAF vs. Standalone
11-08-2014, 08:03 PM
#61
Drifting
01-01-2015, 02:32 PM
#62
Drifting
Revisiting this topic, if the 944 standalone setups came with more than just a startup map I'd be much more inclined to go for one, if I read it right the ViPec QuickTune software can map an engine in under 30 mins on a dyno, if that's the case is it worth learning how to programme it, and spending hours fine tuning it yourself ?
01-01-2015, 03:48 PM
#63
Three Wheelin'
Startup map in my case means that it is tuned to run on stock engine.
It is not possible to provide good running maps for various setups other than just mild mods like bigger injectors etc. Not a single good tuner will take the responsibility of promising that the map will wotk on a turbocharged car safely if the fuel is not tuned well! Ignition can be made safe (and usually with lost power), but fuel is affected by every small detail and it is mandatory to tune it.
For example VEMS has Live VE analyser which tunes VE map accoridng to AFR target table, you just need to drive around and burn the config afterwards.
It is not possible to provide good running maps for various setups other than just mild mods like bigger injectors etc. Not a single good tuner will take the responsibility of promising that the map will wotk on a turbocharged car safely if the fuel is not tuned well! Ignition can be made safe (and usually with lost power), but fuel is affected by every small detail and it is mandatory to tune it.
For example VEMS has Live VE analyser which tunes VE map accoridng to AFR target table, you just need to drive around and burn the config afterwards.
01-01-2015, 04:37 PM
#64
Drifting
A couple of vendors have plenty of 944 experience with their standalone setups so I would have thought they could get pretty close if given the spec of a customers engine, letting the software do the fine tuning ? If I go the standalone route I'd like to buy the sensors and injectors etc from the same company with a compatible map installed.
01-01-2015, 05:06 PM
#65
Three Wheelin'
It is not just the sensors and injectors. Most of the sensors will remain stock and 90% of MAP sensors are inside the ECU.
Engine VE changes even with the wear over time and MAP is not compensating for it unless the system has closed loop EGO control. With MAF it is a bit more forgiving but it has its own drawbacks.
You have to realise that with standalone, there is no one who would offer you an ECU with other parts and much more power over what you have now with your current engine. Even the exhaust matters.
What I do not get is that when people are buying a standalone, why are they so afraid of going to some tuner and just let them tune the car? With a good standalone, tuning the engine if it already runs, takes maximum two hours. It is much much less than trying to burn chips with each tune and getting the tune right which means it is also cheaper. In Estonia for example, tuning a turbocharged car that is running on startup MAP costs ~300 euros, is that too much? It is the same cost as around two tanks of gas in UK..
I have been in Togo, West Africa to tune a turbocharged BMW and in many European countries too...
Engine VE changes even with the wear over time and MAP is not compensating for it unless the system has closed loop EGO control. With MAF it is a bit more forgiving but it has its own drawbacks.
You have to realise that with standalone, there is no one who would offer you an ECU with other parts and much more power over what you have now with your current engine. Even the exhaust matters.
What I do not get is that when people are buying a standalone, why are they so afraid of going to some tuner and just let them tune the car? With a good standalone, tuning the engine if it already runs, takes maximum two hours. It is much much less than trying to burn chips with each tune and getting the tune right which means it is also cheaper. In Estonia for example, tuning a turbocharged car that is running on startup MAP costs ~300 euros, is that too much? It is the same cost as around two tanks of gas in UK..
I have been in Togo, West Africa to tune a turbocharged BMW and in many European countries too...
01-01-2015, 05:59 PM
#67
Drifting
What I do not get is that when people are buying a standalone, why are they so afraid of going to some tuner and just let them tune the car? With a good standalone, tuning the engine if it already runs, takes maximum two hours. It is much much less than trying to burn chips with each tune and getting the tune right which means it is also cheaper. In Estonia for example, tuning a turbocharged car that is running on startup MAP costs ~300 euros, is that too much? It is the same cost as around two tanks of gas in UK..
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