*eurospeed951*

ok, I don't understand. A while back I has been in contact through email with TT. I thought the plan was to provide a unit that would display, log, and allow tunning of all the data in the DME and KLR. From what I understood this was already created.

What is the value of just displaying the motronic data if you can not adjust or log it? Also, what is it that would make it cost so much?

Olli Snellman

How this Motronic editor is going to be attached to DME/KLR boxes??? Do you have to remove the chips and place them to E-prom reader/writer or do you have some special cable which can be mounted between boxes & PC ?

fast951

I guess I should have never mentioned the Motronic Editor. For now there are no plans to offer it as a product, at least not to the general public.

The Motronic Monitor will be a product, it will help you diagnose/tune/data log your running conditions.

Perry 951

Why not?? There are a few of us that are very interested in it. If your goal is to sell a 1000 of them, that's cool and all, but I think you are looking at it the wrong way. We know TT had a working version, so why not continue to develop it with him? Sure, R&D time is not free, but if much of the work is done and all there is left is some fine tuning, why not go ahead with it and offer it to the select few that will drop some cash on it?

I did the same with my LED's. I put almost $3000 and a few years work into the kits before I sold my 1st one. I have only produced 30 of them, not even close enough to cover my cost. I'm sure I could have charged twice as much for them to make it more profitable, and I am sure I would have sold just as many. I did it because a handful of people liked the idea, and I provided them a useful and practical product, the same thing I set out to find or design myself. A select few people wanted them, and the ones who got them were more than thankful.


I offered before to be a beta tester for the Motronic Live Editor. I have done enough programming experience that I know I could handle it, and be able to offer help and suggestions. I'd be happy to pay for the privilege.

I think the reason some of us are so hopped up on this is because it's an idea we've had since day one, but the majority of us are all thumbs when it comes to implementing it. In the long run, it reduces costs for the consumer, and obviously becomes a sell-able product for you.

I am at a fork in the road. I can continue to have someone burn chips at $200 a pop for me until I hit the right combination. I can scrap the $2500 setup I have and bomb $3000+ in a full stand alone kit. I can add more band aids (aka piggy backs and signal massagers) until I go broke or blow it up. OR I can try and help develop a seemingly fix all solution that works with what I already have and utilizes the power of the simple, clean, and efficient factory setup.

If all this does not matter, and you don't want to produce that side of the product, that's cool. I don't think anyone will hold you with any less respect.

fast951

Perry,

TT and I are working together. As I said we have working versions, however we plan on releasing the Monitor first. Many issues are involved in releasing a product, development is just a part of it..

blitz951

Perry,

Why dont you like the Piggy back solution? It adjusts fuel, timing etc... It has worked for many people including myself but I will admit I dont have the experience that others have with the various options so I would like to hear more opinions.

Perry 951

I have a piggy back ARC-2 and have thought about the PSC-1 to take care of some of the odds and ends that I am having issues with. I am at the point where I have spent enough money on this stuff that I am cautious about adding another band aid. I have always wanted something to properly interface with the stock Motronics that would allow me full control of all parameters, the same as any stand alone system, while keeping the thousands in equipment I already have.

Ditching everything I have built so far (and that it only has a few thousand miles on it) is not an option. I have a setup that works good, but not enough tuning resolution to get it great. No matter what type of piggyback you are going to use, all you will do is skew the lookup points on the chips you have, rather than having a proper program in the chip itself.

The Motronic Editor has the capability to properly modify the mapping of all parameters allowed in the Motronic code, thus allowing you to map a specific point at it's specific value.

Currently, with the ARC-2, PSC-1, Link, etc, you essentially are telling the ECU false information to make it run properly. At idle, the chip may automatically revert to a specific map, cell, code, event, etc, then have an input source telling it information to look elsewhere.

With a MAF for instance, there is no specific conversion (except the Motronics Editor) that will take the exact info from the MAF (.8V at 80% throttle, 80% load) and have it mapped to a zone that is 80% throttle and 80% load. What you'll have is a conditioner that takes that .8V artificially tells the chip to look up a zone that is 4.5V from the VAF, and that may or may not correspond to 80% throttle and 80% load. As you change values, the resolution of the signal conditioners is not fine enough to make it work as it should from the factory. Bottom line, you have .1-1.0V from a MAF, .1-5.0 from a VAF, there is a lot of room for overlap. Because of the different outputs from the two, you have a 5:1 chance of having the same output signal for different airflow conditions. .2V from the MAF could be 1.0-2.0V from the signal conditioner. That's a pretty good range, about 20% of the total resolution. So... in some situations, you could have an airflow output for 30% load when you have fuel for 20% load. Inversly, you could have an airflow output for 20% load and fuel for 30% load. This is one of the exact issues I am having.

Anyway, info info blah blah, tuners of other makes (DSM for example) have done this same thing. They have laptop driven interfaces that work as chips and can modify every parameter the chip had. This allows you to keep your fully functional factory setup, yet program it for your specific needs.

Perry 951

Blitz, what is your full setup?

blitz951

Perry,

My full set up not including rims, body, interior and suspension is as follows;

K27/8
#55's
GURU chips
3 bar fuel reg.
Powerhaus head (mild P&P, better springs, O ring otherwise just a good rebuild)
Widefire HG
2.5" inter cooler hard pipes
SMT 6D Piggyback from Perfect Power
Custom made 3" MAF with a Pro-M bulit/ K & N Filter
2.5" straight through exhaust terminating with a Borla XR1
TEC 45mm waste gate finally going on this Sat.

I have to say that I went through 4 sets of chips trying to get things right and never put much stock in what was being sold in the Porsche Market in terms of control/MAF especially with the fantasy numbers being quoted thats why I held out for a long time.
I was very close to a stand alone but I know the factory DME is tough to beat which means I would have had to go with, at the very least, DTA and up. This means lots of work and tuning time.
I decided to go with what I think are the best chips, GURU, a Piggyback to fine tune them and I have no complaints but I must say this is all new and I will have to tune some more when I get the chance with a wide band.
So far I have tuned out a rich idle, a rough idle and retarded my timing to run 18 psi on 94 octane.
I only tweaked enough to get the trouble spots corrected but I will do more extensive tuning once I get the wide band in the interest of safety.

Duke

Blitz, I'm going to get the SMT6 Piggyback this winter. How do you like it?? I want to know all about it!
How many degrees have you retarded the timing?

Thanks!

Perry 951

My rough tune was pretty good... I have trouble keeping my mid load mid throttle AF from going lean. If I richen the midrange, I end up too rich at idle.. enough to make you sick and gas out anyone behind me.

I need more resolution. Do you know if they have an online manual for the SMT6? I'd like to check out it's capabilities.

Duke

Perry, look here:
Perfect Power

It has great capabilities!

Mike B

And here. Prices in Canadian dollars!

http://www.canspeed.com/PerfectSMT.htm

blitz951

Perry,

Your problems sounds similar to the problem I had. My gas mileage was killing me because of all the fuel I was dumping at idle. I didn't use a wideband to make my adj. so I mainly made adj. at idle and there is a big difference in my gas mileage and performance is better. Like I said, once I get my wide band I will get to much more tuning.

If the sites listed above dont get you the online manual then let me know. I think I can get one online for you or get you in the right direction. You have to get a user name and password to get the info from the site and it should be very easy to do but let me know if there is a problem.

crazyracer

Perry

with a wide band sensor and the STM6 you get all the resolution you need. Under $1K. No need to go to something more sophisticated.