Tial vs Synapse wastegate
03-19-2014, 02:22 AM
#16
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Tial is pretty proven in all of the car world, pretty much everyone uses them. If it works, no reason to be different.
Another option would be an Audi wastegate. They're a bit bigger, so they might not fit, but they're super reliable and have been used on lots of big power builds.
Another option would be an Audi wastegate. They're a bit bigger, so they might not fit, but they're super reliable and have been used on lots of big power builds.
03-19-2014, 02:47 AM
#18
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03-19-2014, 05:49 AM
#19
Addict
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Thread Starter
What size turbosmart are you using Patrick? 40mm?
03-19-2014, 01:43 PM
#20
Addict
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Not to sway your decision, but it is import to know that because tial wastegates activate the valve in the reverse direction the boost pressure is sent to the bottom side of the diaphram as opposed to the stock or LR wastegates that send to the top. an interesting thing about this is that the stock and LR create a perfect seal between the inside of the top cap of the wastegate and the diaphram itself. this is ideal for boosting because our cars use a sealed system. TiAL on the other hand sends the pressure to the bottom side of the diaphram. this causes a slight issue because of the valve guide. because the valve guide needs to slide up and down this creates a small leaking point. TiAL relies on heat expansion to seal this, obviously it never seals 100% or the valve couldnt move properly.
If you care to actually test this, you can simply get a vac line and attach it to a shutoff valve, all you need to do is supply pressure to the wastegate with the shutoff valve open. while the system is still receiving pressure close the valve. on a stock or LR wastegate the wastegate will remain stuck open with the pressure locked in the chamber and will only close after the pressure is released from the shutoff valve. this same test done to a tial results in no pressure staying in the chamber. once you close the valve the valve the pressure will leak out through the valve guide and the wastgate closes.
In theory, because tial isnt considered a sealed system the turbo has to work slightly harder to maintain proper operation of the wastegate. I also want to make it clear that this is a slight difference, but to some a slight difference means everything. This is like blowing up a balloon vs blowing up a balloon with a small pin hole, both will inflat but with the pin hole the task is slightly harder.
If you care to actually test this, you can simply get a vac line and attach it to a shutoff valve, all you need to do is supply pressure to the wastegate with the shutoff valve open. while the system is still receiving pressure close the valve. on a stock or LR wastegate the wastegate will remain stuck open with the pressure locked in the chamber and will only close after the pressure is released from the shutoff valve. this same test done to a tial results in no pressure staying in the chamber. once you close the valve the valve the pressure will leak out through the valve guide and the wastgate closes.
In theory, because tial isnt considered a sealed system the turbo has to work slightly harder to maintain proper operation of the wastegate. I also want to make it clear that this is a slight difference, but to some a slight difference means everything. This is like blowing up a balloon vs blowing up a balloon with a small pin hole, both will inflat but with the pin hole the task is slightly harder.
TiAL’s inverted valve makes it conceptually a bit easier to design a dual port wastegate.
Personally I am happily using the OE wastegate with an additional spring and a Blitz controller for the occasional 25 psi boost.
Laust
03-19-2014, 01:58 PM
#21
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The valve stem/guide leakage concern can be applied to the OE/LR wastegates as well, except the leakage occurs on the exhaust side, robbing the turbine for some exhaust pressure otherwise used to build boost. Exhaust gas leakage (high temperature with carbon particles) is even more difficult to control than clean intake air leakage (moderate temperature). Porsche was smart enough to install a ceramic valve guide. The slight exhaust leakage also puts a higher demand on cooling the housing, hence the fins.
TiAL’s inverted valve makes it conceptually a bit easier to design a dual port wastegate.
Personally I am happily using the OE wastegate with an additional spring and a Blitz controller for the occasional 25 psi boost.
Laust
TiAL’s inverted valve makes it conceptually a bit easier to design a dual port wastegate.
Personally I am happily using the OE wastegate with an additional spring and a Blitz controller for the occasional 25 psi boost.
Laust
03-19-2014, 06:24 PM
#22
Addict
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In the picture below you see the main components. Modified actuator (top), a spacer, the spring (from Century Spring, CA and as I recall the number on the bag is the part number) and the modified valve housing (bottom). The modifications are minor, removal of an inside heat shield on the top and a recess for the spring ID on the valve protrusion on the bottom.
I have had a WG with those modifications installed since 2005.
Laust
04-07-2014, 10:23 PM
#24
I still have few sets of wastegate adapter plates available so you can upgrade your 25 year old WG to a Tial.
Please PM if interested.
Please PM if interested.
how George?
04-08-2014, 02:06 AM
#26
Defending the Border
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Rest In Peace
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Rest In Peace
Laust makes some damn good points, hard to argue with.
I have put stupid pressures, pressures that should have cost me plenty in engine repairs (have the Zeit logs to show), and the Tial still holds 8+ years later.
I have put stupid pressures, pressures that should have cost me plenty in engine repairs (have the Zeit logs to show), and the Tial still holds 8+ years later.
04-08-2014, 03:24 AM
#27
Drifting
