Voith

I am trying to decide on which wastegate to buy and I really like TiAL products, but I cant ignore the fact that Synapse is technologically superior diaphragm-less wastegate and has all these nice features including boost control & interchangeable valve seats in different sizes..

Is there any bad side to Synapse?

synapse


tial

jasonlp

Yeah mine failed within less then a year, Tial has been great.

Watch the Zip'd video.

Voith

Rings like a bell

44mm TiAL it is..

Thanks!

mahoney944

Not to sway your decision, but it is import to know that because tial wastegates activate the valve in the reverse direction the boost pressure is sent to the bottom side of the diaphram as opposed to the stock or LR wastegates that send to the top. an interesting thing about this is that the stock and LR create a perfect seal between the inside of the top cap of the wastegate and the diaphram itself. this is ideal for boosting because our cars use a sealed system. TiAL on the other hand sends the pressure to the bottom side of the diaphram. this causes a slight issue because of the valve guide. because the valve guide needs to slide up and down this creates a small leaking point. TiAL relies on heat expansion to seal this, obviously it never seals 100% or the valve couldnt move properly.

If you care to actually test this, you can simply get a vac line and attach it to a shutoff valve, all you need to do is supply pressure to the wastegate with the shutoff valve open. while the system is still receiving pressure close the valve. on a stock or LR wastegate the wastegate will remain stuck open with the pressure locked in the chamber and will only close after the pressure is released from the shutoff valve. this same test done to a tial results in no pressure staying in the chamber. once you close the valve the valve the pressure will leak out through the valve guide and the wastgate closes.

In theory, because tial isnt considered a sealed system the turbo has to work slightly harder to maintain proper operation of the wastegate. I also want to make it clear that this is a slight difference, but to some a slight difference means everything. This is like blowing up a balloon vs blowing up a balloon with a small pin hole, both will inflat but with the pin hole the task is slightly harder.

jasonlp

Also had a Lindsey WG fail

dmcampbell

Jason: What was the LR failure? I am pulling my LR DP WG out this week. Thanks, Mike

jasonlp

It would stick open, was frustrated after wasting dyno time bought a Synapse in frustration and sold on advertisement and after almost a year that failed the top came lose and the valve jammed so I bought a Tial which I should have bought the first time and after 4 years still going strong, holding numbers where they should be.

fejjj

I have 1 set of adapter plates for a Tial 38 left if you need them.

Voith

Is there any other quality wg out there, what about HKS? Ideally I would want tial quality WG with stock like operation..

Is this opening of tial under pressure so small that it is perfectly acceptable or is there a noticeable difference?

Fejjj: I will most probably use vbands.

alxdgr8

I've heard lots of good things about JGS in the Nissan world. I have a 40mm that I plan on using, just haven't gotten around to it yet on any car.

mahoney944

From a bench test aspect the leak is significant, under heat and expansion of the exhaust maybe allitle better, but it will always be there. like i was saying the leak can never be 100% sealed or the valve itself couldnt move. as far as comparing the performance aspect of it, it would have to be left to a back to back dyno run comparing both under the same conditons. In my opinion, if the chamber doesnt make a complete seal the turbo has to at the very least work a little harder to compesate for the bleed off. the amount of extra work would be determined from the play in the shaft in ratio of the pressure escaping. And working alittle harder on the turbo means more turbo wear.

For me i started by using a stock wastegate with a mbc to starve the wastegate raiseing boost. i was running nearly 20 psi for a few years. i then decided to give a dual port a try and went with the tial 38mm. the responce seemed a bit slow so i decided to try the LR dual port and have been using it ever since running 20 psi. The LR has worked for me, flawlessly. the responce is absolutely great. I cant say enough. Lindsey Racing has always been more then fair with me and im sure if you were to have an issue with the wastegate they would be more then happy to take a look at it if not repair it for free. Ideally the best wastegate because it uses the perfect seal design as the original did with the quality of a tial, not to mention its direct fit. no adapters (possible leaking points). just my opinon.

lejams

No dog in this, just a fact that my LR dual port failed too... after 12 years.

Speed Metal 951

Ive recently installed a Turbosmart.. Another option...

TurboTommy

I've tested the tial wastegate, and yes, there is a tiny leak through the valve stem; but it's next to nothing.
I'm **** about any kind of boost leaks, but this one is so small it doesn't even bug me in the least bit.
Just for comparison: the small leaks through the throttle body shafts, that some here have experienced, are bigger.

lart951

all this talk about tial leaking, might is well use a stock wastegate with a pinched line according to some people they will hold boost infinitely, lol.

Tial is the way to go, I have used tial up to 23 psi(video documented) and it held boost all the way to red line, the infamous special tool used a 38mm for his 35psi run.