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Mystery of the vanishing coolant?

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Old 06-28-2014, 06:47 PM
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333pg333
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As an addendum to this thread, we continue to have h/g issues on the track car. We even turned the boost back down to 18psi and thought that might sneak through. Worked for a little while (read, half a day) but then we saw the signs of coolant on parts of the car underneath. Still managed to record some very good times with the car but this failure rate is distracting and becomes expensive over a season.

So now the motor is out and the head and block are being sent off to be O ring'd and we'll get a custom copper gasket made up. Our intention is to be able to run about 1.8bar on the straights either via lateral grip or even a push to pass button. Maybe rising with rpms. Not 100% on the method yet.
Old 06-28-2014, 07:11 PM
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rlm328
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When tried them we used copper coat to seal the water passages side of the gasket.
Old 06-28-2014, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by KSira
The 16V head should help in several ways. The head itself is a stiffer construction and will also have less peak cylinder pressure according to what I have read. Also the 16v Porsche manual states that the S2 head has increased strength in the studs area and needs less torque when installing.

Did you retorque the studs after heat cycling the engine?
No retorque. As that is "optional" (ie not specified by the FWSM), and involves a whole bunch of disassembly (belts, pulley, cams), I did not.

Patrick - what thickness Cometic do you use?

Do you have a knock light installed in your car? Knocking is a funny thing - it never showed up on the dyno in my car, yet I still get quite a few counts on track. Running E85 probably helps you a lot though, I run 98RON + Octane booster on track for about 101RON resultant.
Old 06-28-2014, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric_Oz_S2
I'm going to try a cometic. Is .051 thick closest to stock? Is that what is commonly used?
I think stock is 1.1mm and the .04 is a little less than this. .
Cometic .040" is the thickness I have been using
Old 06-28-2014, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rlm328
When tried them we used copper coat to seal the water passages side of the gasket.
What do you use now Bob? What boost and fuel do you run?

Originally Posted by Eric_Oz_S2
No retorque. As that is "optional" (ie not specified by the FWSM), and involves a whole bunch of disassembly (belts, pulley, cams), I did not.

Patrick - what thickness Cometic do you use?

Do you have a knock light installed in your car? Knocking is a funny thing - it never showed up on the dyno in my car, yet I still get quite a few counts on track. Running E85 probably helps you a lot though, I run 98RON + Octane booster on track for about 101RON resultant.
I think you can just re-torque them overnight to allow for any bolt stretch Eric. Again, without qualitative data this might be an old wive's tale but I know some do this.
I don't actually know which thickness my h/g is. Sean will know. I can't remember being offered anything but what we use. I think Corleone used to pull his apart and put hylomar inbetween all the layers too. Could be overkill but his build is stuff of legend.

No knock light but we can run one if wanted. We run Motec knock control. Have had some minor counts but now running Martini E85 said to be 116oct. I am a bit dubious over those oct claims but "all the fast guys are using it" and it works for us. Not cheap though. Do you have any United or Caltex servo's near you that vend their pump E85? Might be worth making the change.

Originally Posted by David Floyd
Cometic .040" is the thickness I have been using
David, who specified that particular thickness ? Do you know what your c/r is?
Old 06-28-2014, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 333pg333
David, who specified that particular thickness ? Do you know what your c/r is?
8:1 cr
When I switched to Cometic I chose .040 as closest to stock without lowering cr anymore.
Old 06-29-2014, 12:44 AM
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[QUOTE=333pg333;11473274]What do you use now Bob? What boost and fuel do you run?

I have only run about 17 psi at it using 98 octane. I have a .051 Cometic now had it at the track a couple of weeks ago, track temp was around 130 F no problems. I have been using it about 6 months now. I thought I had an issue around March but it was the radiator cap.

My engine was rebuilt with MID sleeves, very different thermal expansion than the alusil block which is the main reason I switched to the Cometic as it flexes a little where the copper does not. If you go with the copper you may want to consider stock head studs for the extra stretch.

My ECU is a Motec. So I can control most parameters.
Old 06-29-2014, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris White
Highly recommended 'cheap' mod - add a pressure sensor to your coolant expansion tank and datalog the results. You will see the signs of a failing headgasket there long before it does any damage. I have that sensor (an oil pressure or fuel pressure sensor will work fine) hooked into my ECU and programmed to kill boost if it sees over 17psi (you have to set is just at or slightly above above you cap pressure).
I also found a nice bleeder to replace the stock screw - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/de...Fe1QOgod-jIA7A you just push it in and it will vent the air. it takes all of 2 seconds and it can be done after each track session to double check the coolant system.

Hmmm...I wonder why I pass on all my little secrets? I should charge you guys for these gems!!!
I got a buck. Will that do? thanks for the tip!
Old 06-29-2014, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by 333pg333
As an addendum to this thread, we continue to have h/g issues on the track car. We even turned the boost back down to 18psi and thought that might sneak through. Worked for a little while (read, half a day) but then we saw the signs of coolant on parts of the car underneath. Still managed to record some very good times with the car but this failure rate is distracting and becomes expensive over a season.

So now the motor is out and the head and block are being sent off to be O ring'd and we'll get a custom copper gasket made up. Our intention is to be able to run about 1.8bar on the straights either via lateral grip or even a push to pass button. Maybe rising with rpms. Not 100% on the method yet.
WOT trigger + RPM would be the best one.
Old 06-29-2014, 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Eric_Oz_S2
No retorque. As that is "optional" (ie not specified by the FWSM), and involves a whole bunch of disassembly (belts, pulley, cams), I did not.

Patrick - what thickness Cometic do you use?

Do you have a knock light installed in your car? Knocking is a funny thing - it never showed up on the dyno in my car, yet I still get quite a few counts on track. Running E85 probably helps you a lot though, I run 98RON + Octane booster on track for about 101RON resultant.
I retorqued my head studs after driving for a while of boost/very low boost. This was a major PITA as it is a 16V head, but several of the nuts where not holding specified toque and did move enough to make me concerned for what had happened if this had not been done. This was with Raceware studs and a cometic gasket.
Old 06-29-2014, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris White
I also found a nice bleeder to replace the stock screw - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/de...Fe1QOgod-jIA7A you just push it in and it will vent the air. it takes all of 2 seconds and it can be done after each track session to double check the coolant system.

Hmmm...I wonder why I pass on all my little secrets? I should charge you guys for these gems!!!
Chris, is this a direct swap for the stock coolant bleeder or do you need to drill and tap a new hole?

FYI I'm another buyer for your book, hurry up and get writing!
Old 07-02-2014, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by chrenan
Chris, is this a direct swap for the stock coolant bleeder or do you need to drill and tap a new hole?

FYI I'm another buyer for your book, hurry up and get writing!
Good question. I presume it is yes.

As for the book, you should see his photography book. Seriously, it was amazing!



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