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Guess it is time for me to contribute something . Seeing as how I am a 12 volt guy for a living , I went and picked up a complete 2010 07k harness and ECU from my local pick n save . I`m going to split the harness open and shape it to fit it`s new home . I will make notes and try to provide all the necessary info . Oh , and this only cost me $24 , with a $10 donation to Toys for Tots .
I posted earlier, been reading this thread with alot of interest as I have a 944 as well and driving my Son's '10 Golf 2.5. I'd be willing to help out if I can, what is the part number on the ECU, the last two letters will indicate if its is the same as my '10?
If you decide to use the original VW ECU, the '10 and later models use MED 17 and the Limiter Based system as well as the Check Sum is a lot harder to change than the Pre- '10 models Torque Based system (MED 16). For the small number of Stage1 Tunes that I do, the tool and license to recalculate and change the MED 17 Check Sum is expensive, so I send the files to a Tuner in Europe to correct the CheckSum, he offers IMMO deletes service as well, which I have not tried.
EDIT: I suppose we could get him to delete the IMMO and do a compare on the file to learn to do the IMMO Delete but I still would need to recalculate the Check Sum, other wise the ECU will not operate.
Originally Posted by vt951
You may want to hold off. I’m working a deal with SPA now to import a bunch of the exhaust manifolds. I think they will be making my intake manifolds as well. It will save a lot of the shipping and import fees to do a lot of them at once.
Hi Alan, while we are not planning at this time to drop a 07K into the 944, if the custom SPA Turbo Exhaust Manifold will still fit in the Golf and the price is good we'd be interested in one to add turbo to the Golf.
EDIT: If won't fit then can we add a standard SPA Manifold to the order to increase the unit numbers.
Last edited by Mark Lue; 12-22-2018 at 11:51 AM.
Reason: adding comment
Hi everyone. I just found this thread a few days ago when looking for oil pan options. I have an 83 that I’ve been working on for the last year swapping in a CBTA-based turbo engine build.
It’s interesting how many common issues and solutions we’ve come up with. I’ve also settled on 15 degree angle and have a SPEC clutch/flywheel kit for the 8 bolt crank. I have the engine at the same height as stock Porsche, but was able to do this by blocking off the vac pump and running with the torque tube shaft right in the TTRS crank bearing (running a VAG electric vac pump). My flywheel housing is designed similar to what’s being shown here with the VW starter in the Porsche location; I have a 15” diameter billet of aluminum at the machine shop waiting for when they have time. ( Once I figure out how to upload pics I’ll post some of the car and the fw housing.)
I have custom JE pistons, IE rods, IE valve springs, Ferrea valves, EFR7163 turbo and a pile of welding supplies. This is my second manifold I’ll be welding up, but first made from 321SS... good test of my novice TIG skills.
I planned to machine or weld up the rear coolant adaptor. I bought a TTRS lower intake manifold but even if I modified to fit port injection it’s too tall. I almost bought the IE intake to modify, but saw ther dims would be way too long and hit the brake booster. I have a first gen Gallardo lower intake which has port injection, and I’m debating running that with a custom plenum or just machining a lower from billet like what Iroz has, just curved down to fit the 944. I looked into 3D printing both of these in nylon as that would be strong enough for a production part (Golf R), but price is not friendly. Same for castings in low volumes, which I looked at alum for intake and SS for exhaust manifolds.
A few things I saw asked here that I can offer opinions on.
I have a 80mm electronic throttle body from a Cayenne or 911 or Panamera that will work fine with most e-throttle engine management (I have Link ECU). It was inexpensive compared to TTRS, and non OE replacements are less expensive.
I’ve found going stand alone is the best bet due to flexibility. Trying to crack and remap the stock ECU sounds like a losing battle when you consider a turbo engine will need to remap the VE tables, lambda tables, throttle body tables, not to mention lacking wastegate control and going to a different MAP sensor and injector size.
Service manuals for VW/Audi are available electronically from VW. Google ERWIN, it’s like $20 for 24 hour access including unlimited download capability. They are PDF and don’t lock after time. I downloaded everything my internet could handle in an evening. It’s basically the system that replaces the old excellent Bentley manuals including wiring diagrams, complete service manuals etc.
My car is manual steering so I don’t need to worry about a pump, but I liked the idea mentioned about using an electric column from a late model car.
For AC I’ve been debating three options. 1) Run electric compressor. Downsides are cost, weight and power draw, but seems like a good trade off for those putting the PS pump in that location. 2) Belt drive and mount on right side, down side is bracket fab and space considering the turbo will be there too. 3) Is what I’m leaning toward, which is to mount the compressor in the open space between engine and radiator in the same 07k location but facing backward and adapt the 07k dual pulley to a Honda compressor. Not that I want Honda parts on my German beauty, but 90’s Honda engines ran counter clockwise so the compressor would still work correctly running there. Making a pulley is easy enough, but the bracket will not be straight forward at all so that’s where #1 seems better.
But back to the original reason I’m here: Oil pan and valve cover. I was leaning toward Machining the stock upper oil pan and fabbing a lower (which is what it appears Alex is trying as well), but would like to see more of what you guys are doing. Any good options out there for dry sump?
As far as valve cover, what is the price? I was going to machine one, but why reinvent the wheel if the price is reasonable - and the size is right. I need it to be 5/8-3/4” thick at the front to clear the hood.
I appreciate any input, and glad I stumbled on this thread!
I posted earlier, been reading this thread with alot of interest as I have a 944 as well and driving my Son's '10 Golf 2.5. I'd be willing to help out if I can, what is the part number on the ECU, the last two letters will indicate if its is the same as my '10?
If you decide to use the original VW ECU, the '10 and later models use MED 17 and the Limiter Based system as well as the Check Sum is a lot harder to change than the Pre- '10 models Torque Based system (MED 16). For the small number of Stage1 Tunes that I do, the tool and license to recalculate and change the MED 17 Check Sum is expensive, so I send the files to a Tuner in Europe to correct the CheckSum, he offers IMMO deletes service as well, which I have not tried.
EDIT: I suppose we could get him to delete the IMMO and do a compare on the file to learn to do the IMMO Delete but I still would need to recalculate the Check Sum, other wise the ECU will not operate.
Hi Alan, while we are not planning at this time to drop a 07K into the 944, if the custom SPA Turbo Exhaust Manifold will still fit in the Golf and the price is good we'd be interested in one to add turbo to the Golf.
EDIT: If won't fit then can we add a standard SPA Manifold to the order to increase the unit numbers.
Hi Mark, I believe the SPA turbo manifold was designed for the Golf/Rabbit and Jetta platforms. It just happens to fit well in the 944, too.
Hi everyone. I just found this thread a few days ago when looking for oil pan options. I have an 83 that I’ve been working on for the last year swapping in a CBTA-based turbo engine build.
It’s interesting how many common issues and solutions we’ve come up with. I’ve also settled on 15 degree angle and have a SPEC clutch/flywheel kit for the 8 bolt crank. I have the engine at the same height as stock Porsche, but was able to do this by blocking off the vac pump and running with the torque tube shaft right in the TTRS crank bearing (running a VAG electric vac pump). My flywheel housing is designed similar to what’s being shown here with the VW starter in the Porsche location; I have a 15” diameter billet of aluminum at the machine shop waiting for when they have time. ( Once I figure out how to upload pics I’ll post some of the car and the fw housing.)
I have custom JE pistons, IE rods, IE valve springs, Ferrea valves, EFR7163 turbo and a pile of welding supplies. This is my second manifold I’ll be welding up, but first made from 321SS... good test of my novice TIG skills.
I planned to machine or weld up the rear coolant adaptor. I bought a TTRS lower intake manifold but even if I modified to fit port injection it’s too tall. I almost bought the IE intake to modify, but saw ther dims would be way too long and hit the brake booster. I have a first gen Gallardo lower intake which has port injection, and I’m debating running that with a custom plenum or just machining a lower from billet like what Iroz has, just curved down to fit the 944. I looked into 3D printing both of these in nylon as that would be strong enough for a production part (Golf R), but price is not friendly. Same for castings in low volumes, which I looked at alum for intake and SS for exhaust manifolds.
A few things I saw asked here that I can offer opinions on.
I have a 80mm electronic throttle body from a Cayenne or 911 or Panamera that will work fine with most e-throttle engine management (I have Link ECU). It was inexpensive compared to TTRS, and non OE replacements are less expensive.
I’ve found going stand alone is the best bet due to flexibility. Trying to crack and remap the stock ECU sounds like a losing battle when you consider a turbo engine will need to remap the VE tables, lambda tables, throttle body tables, not to mention lacking wastegate control and going to a different MAP sensor and injector size.
Service manuals for VW/Audi are available electronically from VW. Google ERWIN, it’s like $20 for 24 hour access including unlimited download capability. They are PDF and don’t lock after time. I downloaded everything my internet could handle in an evening. It’s basically the system that replaces the old excellent Bentley manuals including wiring diagrams, complete service manuals etc.
My car is manual steering so I don’t need to worry about a pump, but I liked the idea mentioned about using an electric column from a late model car.
For AC I’ve been debating three options. 1) Run electric compressor. Downsides are cost, weight and power draw, but seems like a good trade off for those putting the PS pump in that location. 2) Belt drive and mount on right side, down side is bracket fab and space considering the turbo will be there too. 3) Is what I’m leaning toward, which is to mount the compressor in the open space between engine and radiator in the same 07k location but facing backward and adapt the 07k dual pulley to a Honda compressor. Not that I want Honda parts on my German beauty, but 90’s Honda engines ran counter clockwise so the compressor would still work correctly running there. Making a pulley is easy enough, but the bracket will not be straight forward at all so that’s where #1 seems better.
But back to the original reason I’m here: Oil pan and valve cover. I was leaning toward Machining the stock upper oil pan and fabbing a lower (which is what it appears Alex is trying as well), but would like to see more of what you guys are doing. Any good options out there for dry sump?
As far as valve cover, what is the price? I was going to machine one, but why reinvent the wheel if the price is reasonable - and the size is right. I need it to be 5/8-3/4” thick at the front to clear the hood.
I appreciate any input, and glad I stumbled on this thread!
I need to read through this a few more times to take it all in... but thanks for posting your progress. The valve cover will be 15mm thick at the front, so I think it should fit for you. Valve covers will be about $325 to $475, depending on whether you want the breather box (and that is if I source them in batches of 10). We are not ready to offer these parts a la carte yet. For the next few months I will only offer them as a kit that includes mounts, oil adapter block, and PS pump mount.
As for oil pan, I am planning the same thing you said. I have machined the stock upper pan to clear the steering rack and cross member by over an inch, so I now have room to add back a fabricated lower pan.
The billet bellhousing sounds awesome. Have pics of the design?
Ya, sorry about the long post. Guess I got carried away in the excitement of finding others doing the same thing.
I don't have a need for the mounts and oil cooler adaptor, I am using the stock oil cooler/filter module. But if you get to your minimum order on the other parts and can add a valve cover please let me know.
Here are some CAD screen grabs, if I figured out how to post photos.
Craig
Front of engine bay. I'm not using a Garret turbo, this is an old model.
This is with the Honda reverse rotation AC compressor laid in there. For the left side mount I'm going in front of the steering shaft and going under the accessory bracket to the four heavy bosses.
Rear with my bell housing. Coolant outlet is not final design, just an idea I was playing with. Final design comes off the head and goes down over the top of the bell housing, then out and runs along the right side of the engine under the exhaust manifold.
Bell housing inside. This is based on the TTRS flywheel and Porsche 944 conversion clutch kit from Spec. VW push-type slave cylinder. Going to be machined from a 16" round x 7.5" thick billet of 6061.
Cross section thru engine with flywheel/clutch kit and torque tube.
Front of engine bay. I'm not using a Garret turbo, this is an old model.
This is with the Honda reverse rotation AC compressor laid in there. For the left side mount I'm going in front of the steering shaft and going under the accessory bracket to the four heavy bosses.
Rear with my bell housing. Coolant outlet is not final design, just an idea I was playing with. Final design comes off the head and goes down over the top of the bell housing, then out and runs along the right side of the engine under the exhaust manifold.
Bell housing inside. This is based on the TTRS flywheel and Porsche 944 conversion clutch kit from Spec. VW push-type slave cylinder. Going to be machined from a 16" round x 7.5" thick billet of 6061.
Cross section thru engine with flywheel/clutch kit and torque tube.
Front of engine bay. I'm not using a Garret turbo, this is an old model.
This is with the Honda reverse rotation AC compressor laid in there. For the left side mount I'm going in front of the steering shaft and going under the accessory bracket to the four heavy bosses.
I'd be interested in seeing if that A/C bracket could be mounted on the other side, for those who plan on using the Gallardo exhaust manifold, and are using the 1.8 steering pump bracket, the turbo would be above the compressor and the piping would be completely out of the way. I'm sure Honda isn't the only manufacturer who used a reverse AC compressor, but I'll take that compromise for comfort. Plus, you're right. It is cheaper than any electric option out there. Edit: Unless the reverse rotation AC would, (being "backwards"), provide adequate room for the PS pump.... Then maybe this could be an option.
I'd be interested in seeing if that A/C bracket could be mounted on the other side, for those who plan on using the Gallardo exhaust manifold, and are using the 1.8 steering pump bracket, the turbo would be above the compressor and the piping would be completely out of the way. I'm sure Honda isn't the only manufacturer who used a reverse AC compressor, but I'll take that compromise for comfort. Plus, you're right. It is cheaper than any electric option out there. Edit: Unless the reverse rotation AC would, (being "backwards"), provide adequate room for the PS pump.... Then maybe this could be an option.
There are bosses on the other side of the block, but nothing like a mirror image to directly swap the accessory bracket.
Good point about carbon potentially degrading due to heat and fluids.
So I'll keep the sheet metal fabricated option on the table. My brother in law is also an excellent fabricator and tig welder, so he could make them. They are just very time consuming to make this way, and therefore end up being pretty expensive.
I would prefer to do the cast aluminum option if the tooling is not outrageous... I'm working on a design that I can send out to get quoted. It may be too much, but I at least want to give it a shot.
Alan, any chance your manifold will clear the booster if you slide the engine back by the same thickness as your pilot bearing adaptor?
I also was wondering about your 3-piece crossmember, if it keeps the engine mounts / steering rack / control arms in the stock locations? It would be nice to have extra clearance for the oil pan.
I also was wondering about your 3-piece crossmember, if it keeps the engine mounts / steering rack / control arms in the stock locations? It would be nice to have extra clearance for the oil pan.
Craig
I think at this point it's more weighing the cost of a modified pan vs fully custom corssmember. Personally I'd rather keep as many things stock, or unmodified on the engine as possible to mitigate issues down the line. Regarding the first part, as far as someone not involved in the design process is concerned, I believe everything is kept in the same locations (steering rack, control arms) but the engine mounts will have to be custom one way or another.
Alan, any chance your manifold will clear the booster if you slide the engine back by the same thickness as your pilot bearing adaptor?
I also was wondering about your 3-piece crossmember, if it keeps the engine mounts / steering rack / control arms in the stock locations? It would be nice to have extra clearance for the oil pan.
Craig
Craig,
Moving the engine rearward about 17 mm from where I have it would be tight, but the intake manifold might clear. Looks like you have an early car (based on fuel line routing), so the booster diameter might be a bit smaller than mine, which would help with the clearance to the intake manifold. My guess would be yes, but not guaranteed. The casting wall is 6 mm thick, so there's room to shave some off. Are you sure you don't want to move your engine forward 17 mm and use a pilot bearing adapter? I think it's going to put the timing chain case pretty tight up against the firewall and that coolant fitting will be a bear to get to, among other things.
My 3-piece cross member design has two versions of the removable center section. One version holds the steering rack at the OE position, and the other version drops the rack by 1/2" to help oil pan clearance. All other mounting features (control arms and engine mounts) are in the OE locations. My goal is to design my oil pan to clear the rack in the OE position. The dropped rack mounting provision is sort of a backup plan (and also a product I will be offering to the V8 swap crowd).
[QUOTE=Mark Lue;15514355]I posted earlier, been reading this thread with alot of interest as I have a 944 as well and driving my Son's '10 Golf 2.5. I'd be willing to help out if I can, what is the part number on the ECU, the last two letters will indicate if its is the same as my '10?
If you decide to use the original VW ECU, the '10 and later models use MED 17 and the Limiter Based system as well as the Check Sum is a lot harder to change than the Pre- '10 models Torque Based system (MED 16). For the small number of Stage1 Tunes that I do, the tool and license to recalculate and change the MED 17 Check Sum is expensive, so I send the files to a Tuner in Europe to correct the CheckSum, he offers IMMO deletes service as well, which I have not tried.
EDIT: I suppose we could get him to delete the IMMO and do a compare on the file to learn to do the IMMO Delete but I still would need to recalculate the Check Sum, other wise the ECU will not operate.
My ECU is an AG . I would love to be able to just get the Immo removed and make it function as a standalone for now . I looked into the software and it is no way I would invest that kind of money for stock management .
12-22-2018, 05:24 AM
