VW/Audi 07K (2.5L 20V I5) Swap Thread
2 Attachment(s)
Updated 8/29/2019
This thread is to document the "07k" swap into a 944/968 chassis. The 07k engine is a 2.5L 20-valve inline 5-cylinder engine from VAG. I started this thread over 5 years ago and I'm so glad that some great minds have joined together to bring this to fruition! Thank you to all of you! Thread Directory:
Parts needed for swap: Further detailed descriptions are available on the NineX Engineering website
Parts the NineX Engineering Kit is designed to use but does not include:
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3 Attachment(s)
Introduction:
The "07K" is a 2.5L 20-valve inline 5-cylinder engine from VAG. It's most commonly found in the VW Mk5 and Mk6 Jetta/Rabbit/Passat. A turbocharged and direct-injected derivative is also found in the Audi TT-RS. The cylinder head was developed from the Lamborghini V10. The indirect-injected cylinder head has VVT on the intake cam. Compression ratio is 9.5:1 on the N/A motor, 10:1 on the DI turbo motor. The 07K is completely different from the earlier Audi 20v I5's. The number of cylinders and bore spacing is pretty much the only thing they have in common. Another overview in it's stock form: This engine is only used in the North American, South American, and Middle Eastern markets, as the replacement for the inline-four naturally aspirated 2.0 litre 8v. identification parts code prefix: 07K engine displacement & engine configuration 2,480 cubic centimetres (151.3 cu in) inline five engine (R5/I5); bore x stroke: 82.5 by 92.8 millimetres (3.25 in × 3.65 in), stroke ratio: 0.89:1 - undersquare/long-stroke, 496.1 cc per cylinder cylinder block & crankcase GJL250 grey cast iron; two-part oil sump, die-forged steel crankshaft with six main bearings, water-cooled oil cooler cylinder head & valvetrain cast aluminium alloy; four valves per cylinder, 20 valves total, low-friction roller finger cam followers with automatic hydraulic valve clearance compensation, chain-driven (relay method, using two simplex roller chains) double overhead camshaft (DOHC), variable intake valve timing aspiration cast aluminium intake manifold, single throttle body with electronically controlled 'drive by wire' throttle butterfly valve fuel system common rail multi-point electronic sequential indirect fuel injection with five intake manifold-sited fuel injectors ignition system & engine management five individual direct-acting single spark coils with longlife spark plugs, Bosch Motronic engine control unit (ECU), secondary air injection during cold start phase to reduce emissions, single knock sensor exhaust system one-piece cast iron 5-into-1 exhaust manifold, ceramic catalytic converter, two heated oxygen sensors (three when equipped with California emissions) for permanent lambda control DIN-rated motive power & torque outputs, ID codes 110 kilowatts (150 PS; 148 bhp) @ 5,000 rpm; 225 newton metres (166 lbf·ft) @ 3,750 rpm -- January 2005 (BGP/BGQ/BPR/BPS) 125 kilowatts (170 PS; 168 bhp) @ 5,700 rpm; 239 newton metres (176 lbf·ft) @ 4,250 rpm -- from May 2007 (CBT/CBU) 07K is the same displacement, 2.5L. 07K has one more cylinder, I5 vs I4. 07K has 12 more valves, 20v DOHC vs 8v SOHC. 07K is an iron block with cast aluminum head vs all aluminum (alusil) for the Porsche. 07K can have a forged crank (early ones or TT-RS) with cast rods and crank vs the all-forged (crank/rods/pistons) Porsche. 07K can be had for <$500 for a complete engine with <50k miles vs $1k+ and lots of miles. 07K is 6.5" shorter from bellhousing to crank pulley. 07K block is 2.5" shorter. 07K is 4" longer on the rear of the motor above the bellhousing due to the timing chain/etc. 07K has VVT on the intake came vs one cam with none. 07K can rev to 8500rpm stock where the 951 doesn't live long at 7000rpm. 07K weighs ~20-30lbs lighter overall with turbo/manifolds/clutch/etc. AND the 07K places much of it's weight at the rear of the motor due to the cam-chain assembly and jackshaft driven accessories. 07K can make 400whp on stock everything (including cast crank/pistons/rods) vs about the same on the 951 engine (at higher boost and higher octane fuel on the 951). 07K cylinder head flows 230cfm (x5 cyl) stock vs 180cfm (x4 cyl) stock on the Porsche. A plug-n-play standalone ECU will soon be available for the 07K harness where nothing of the sort is available for the 951 (and the 951 suffers from a 25 year old fragile degrading harness). It'll cost about the same as a MAF kit for a 951. 07K has a trigger wheel built into the rear main seal that's been tested to be reliable to over 9400rpm. Much better than the flywheel mounted sensors on a 951. Engine year differences: BGP/BGQ/BPR/BPS These are the early motors found in MY 05-07 cars and are 148hp/166ft-lb. They have the early style timing chains which can have problems if you follow the VW prescribed 10k oil changes. If you treat them like a performance engine and change your oil at more frequent intervals you'll be fine. Forged cranks were randomly sprinkled into production with these engines and you can't tell without pulling off the pan. A forged crank has a much wider flash line than a cast crank. It might be possible to confirm cast or forged crank by the part number on the flywheel mating surface but this is only speculated. These engines have a 6 bolt attachment for flywheels. CBT/CBU These are the later motors found in MY 08+ and are 168hp/176ft-lb. These have an upgraded timing chain and use an 6-bolt flywheel attachment on the crank. No forged crankshafts are known to exist in these motors, however the forged crankshaft for the TT-RS drops right in. The TT-RS crankshaft can be bought new from VW/Audi for $1100-1300. The TT-RS also has an 8-bolt flywheel attachment. A few more differences depending on the year, but most won't matter for this swap: From 2005.5-2007 Four engines were used. All were 150 HP. BGP (federal emissions) Jetta/golf, BGQ, Cali emissions- jetta/golf, BPS, federal emissions beetle, and BPR cali emissions beetle. From 08 to 10, The BPR and BPS beetle engines were the same HP and specs. From 08 the 2.5 is bumped to 170 HP from software and intake manifold upgrade In 09, MAF was dumped for MAP system. ( except early 09 sportwagen, it had maf) 08-13 engine codes are CBUA (cali emissions) and CBTA (federal emissions). In '11, The exhaust manifold uses individual header tubes and a variable oil pump. It uses a high/low function. It's default to high until 1000 KM, then under 3k rpm ish it uses low pressure and above that it uses high pressure. All engines : Cali emissions uses three oxygen sensors while federal uses two. When the redesigned intake manifold came about in 08, the runners are shorter and the powerband increased to a higher rpm. All 2.5's use variable intake cam timing All are 9.5:1 compression. All use cylinder 5 as top dead center instead of 1. |
THIS I am interested in following.
Much more interesting than an LS swap :) |
Great swap!!! I have been looking at this over the last few weeks as well.
Worth mentioning another couple of advantages: - the 07K has the same diameter clutch as the 944 so the combination of a 944 clutch and an 07K pressure plate should work well. - no need to modify the brake master cylinder arrangement - should sound AWESOME - the motor is half of a Lambo V10 so we continue the tradition of using "half a great engine" in our 944's! |
i will follow this with big interest :)
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Very Interesting. Please continue posting :corn: and thank you.
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Also some great gains are available on this motor even without turbocharging: the stock intake manifold is restrictive and one supplier had dynoed a new intake at +48bhp with an ECU reflash. Plenty of people getting 200 horsepower at the wheels without cams or turbos...
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Potential:
Here's the world's first longitudinal 07K in an Audi Ur-Quattro built by my friend Hank Iroz of Iroz Motorsport in Las Vegas. Motor is a build 07K with HTA3582r. https://i489.photobucket.com/albums/...i-pad-8840.jpg Solid line is the 07K with HTA3582r at 17.5psi. Dotted line as an Audi AAN 2.2L I5 with a Billet K26 at 31.5psi. Both on E85. Attachment 1205098 And at 25.8psi and running out of fuel on 1000cc injectors with 85psi base pressure. https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...05745624_n.jpg Progress is still being made with VVT control via VEMS standalone. Better spool is expected as more tuning of the VVT is done. Aftermarket cams are in development right now, but not released. The stock cams get pretty bad above 7000rpm. With upgraded cams and springs the motor will continue to make power up to 8-9krpm with no problems. You'll need a 67mm turbo to flow enough at those RPM's, but you'd have pretty much an 850whp setup. If E85 isn't readily available (like in Seattle where the nearest station is 45 min away) then these still have plenty of potential on pump gas. Here are some charts from the TT-RS motor with a GTX3576r which is close enough for comparison. http://www.goapr.com/includes/img/pr...s_s3_91_cw.png http://www.goapr.com/includes/img/pr..._s3_100_cw.png |
Just put a gtx4202 and be done with it ;)
cannot wait to see this happen |
How does it sit so much further back? Is the motor itself a lot shorter?
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This is awesome.... Finally a real build. BTW this is nothing new for the ppl in Northern Europ. They do this all day along.
Keep posting. i might even put this on a 924 shell i have just begging for a something. |
Amazing..watching this closely.
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2 Attachment(s)
Placeholder for "Limitations of OE 07k components"
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Placeholder for "Upgraded engine internal options"
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This has some merit. Had I not gone so far down the road with these i4 builds I would have certainly given this some serious thought.
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