Cheburator

Following some problems with my 500bhp 5.5ltrs, 12:1 comp, ITB-ed and dry-sumped V8 race engine, I think Tuomo (928 twin turbo) suggested that perhaps de-stroking my 928 and adding turbos may solve the problem of fitting it under the maximum allowed displacement of 6.2ltrs for racing in the UK and Germany...

I took his advise on board actually. I think I went a step further... I did not de-stroke a 928... Instead I de-cylindered one - as of yesterday I am the new owner of a 944 Turbo S race car...

My season still has another 3 races in, thus I figured I can race the 4-pot in them, while the V8 gets rebuilt in my own time. Been told the 944s make a great platform for racing...

Let's see - I have not even driven the car that I bought, but the spec sheet was good, the workmanship was a credit to the PO - a mechanic at Porsche in London and the results from the only two races where it entered last year with a novice driver were not too shabby either...

It is a slippery slope, I tell ya.... What next - a 911 based racer?

P.S. Be prepared for lots of stupid questions... And yes, I know, it does not have a van engine and it is a real Porsche...

Thom

Welcome.

Tell more about the car you just bought.

Cheburator

1986 Turbo with the all important 220 on the options sticker and transaxle cooler...

1989 Turbo S engine
Silicon boost and water hoses
Lindsay Racing dual port waste gate
AFPR
High flow airfilter
Bigger intercooler
Lindsay Racing chip
Mocal Oil Cooler
Wrapped exhaust
2.5" single box exhaust
Paddle clutch
Re-bushed gear linkage

Allegedly it has a dyno graph for around 260rwph at 1.2 bar...

Gaz Gold Coilovers
Torsion bars disconnected
Polybushed everywhere
Adjustable rear ARB
Thicker front ARB
SS Goodridge braided lines
Adjustable front strut brace

Standard 1986 4-pots Brembos with Pagid RS29 pads
16" teledials

Fully stripped interior and lightened doors
10-point fully welded Custom Cages roll cage, bracing at roof, A and B pillars, suspension turrets, behind dash board
Lexan windows with sliders
Custom Alcantara dash
Stack gauges + shift light
Adjustable boost controller
Lap timer
4ltrs Lifeline Fire Extinguishing system
Recaro Pole Position seat good till 2015
TRS Hans compatible harness good till 2015
Race battery relocated behind passenger
Custom wiring harness
OMP removable boss steering wheel

968 Bridge Spoiler
924 GTS front headlights

I have a freshly rebuilt set of 928GT front calipers, wondering whether it is worth the hassle to upgrade to M030 - been offered a set of hubs and knuckles for $500 equivalent. I think I will take it for a track day as it is and see how we get on...

mudbuddha

Congrats and post some pix if possible. Sounds like you have the goodies to make it less of a slippery slope. Is this your first 944? The driving dynamic will be different but in a good way. You will find the 951 to be much lighter on its feet and overall a better handling car and more enjoyable to drive.

Cheburator

I have only passengered in a 968 CS prior to buying this one, thus yes, the 944 is a totally new experience for me. Much more time spent behind the wheel of other great handling 4-bangers - an E30 M3, an E30 320iS and several VW Mk2 and 3 16-valvers...

As to the handling - I am not sure whether it is better than my 928 racer... My 928 is on a fully rose-jointed suspension, with the self-steering rear axle disabled, 1200/800 springs, 305/30/18s and 285/35/18s Kumho V70 A rubber, -3deg front camber and -2.5 rear camber, down to 1330kg ready to go racing. It also had full aero - front splitter and a front air dam air exhaust, rear diffuser, proper 993 RSR rear wing, almost full flat floor, wheel wells' air exhausts etc...

The engine made 430rwhp @ 6500rpm and 550rwNm at 5000rpm on a Mustang dyno, so, a totally different beast to a standard 928, which I agree is nowhere near as nimble as a 944T.

I bought the racer as a stock gap, but I already have a feeling it will be a lot of fun along the way. Cannot wait to take it on track and see what the fuss is all about... I am sure it will be good...

Thom

I have only experience with standard 928s, and the out-of-the-box inferior handling of the 944 makes it IMO a lot more fun to drive.

Considering the power of your 928 racer it's more than possible that you may find the 944T way underpowered compared to how well it may handle, which is the most common way to put the first foot on the slippery slope, and as you will notice from searching through this forum there are some 3.0 turbo engines that have quite a bit of grunt and give these cars the power they could have easily handled since they came out of the factory.

333pg333

Interesting story. Sounds like you've got a pretty decent platform although a 50whp raise doesn't seem quite possible at 1.2 bar. There are of course modifications you can make to increase power if that's one of the questions you're asking...not sure what your class rules are though. Do you have to run the 16" wheels? These cars like to have plenty of rubber up front. Running a square, or close to it, setup works well.

Do you know what brake pads and fluid it has in it? You can get adapters to run the Bigger brakes. Be careful what oil you choose for the track but I assume you already know that when running the 928.

Oh, and pics/videos are compulsory. :-)

kghaas

Sounds like an interesting racecar, but the GAZ might be a bit on the soft side for a full race car. I changed to the GAZ gold last year, since I use my car on the street and ocational track days. I ran a full race Bilstein setup which was far better on track.

I think you will be pleasently surprised about the handeling of the 944, but you will need to do something about the power if you want to be close to your shark. Good luck on your racing.

lart951

I couldn't resist to comment on your post, so you are saying the 928 out the box handles better than a 951? If that is the case i'll be very interested in the stuff you are smoking.

333pg333

"a totally different beast to a standard 928, which I agree is nowhere near as nimble as a 944T."

No in this case he was saying that the standard 928 is not as nimble as a 951. Heel Lart, heel...;-)

mudbuddha

I should state that my comment was based on having driven mostly stock 928S4s as compared to a mostly stock 951. Of course your race-prepped 928 would out-muscled your moderately prepped 951. But I would venture to say that if you can get your 951 to within 30rwhp of your 928, and with similar suspension and contact patch set up, the 951 would still be just as fast if not a slight bit quicker in medium to high speed corners. I guess it all comes down to the driver skills and abilities when hp and weight are about the same...No doubt these are fun cars and you will enjoy driving them for a long time.

Thom

Errr... Yes.
I remember from driving a full stock, low mile '91 GT that the speed that could be carried in some curves was quite a bit superior to what we can do with a 951 on fresh stock suspension.
If you don't believe it then perhaps drive one for yourself. If not, just have a look at the suspension design. It doesn't take pot science to figure out why the 928 suspension is vastly superior to the antiquated design carried over from the beetle to the 944 (and older 911s).

Cheburator

The GAZ was just about bearable on the road. It is not a standard set-up as the PO went much higher with the spring rates to compensate for the lack of torsion bars. EMC Racing supplied the spring rates - I would say they are the most knowledgeable shop in the UK when it comes to 944/968s... They raced the 944T back in the days of the Cup series. Moreover, as I have found with the 928 - it is totally undrivable in the wet unless on full wets, which are not allowed. Hopefully, the 944 would be a bit more of an all rounder...

Are you saying that it should be less BHP? Feels like it makes the BHP stated... I don't want to modify the engine at all. The reason I bought the car is because it is very well prepped and would allow me just to put fuel in it and race it. I was given a 220bhp engine with a cracked bore, but a rebuilt head. I am planning to dry sleeve it, increase compression a touch, change the engine management, headers, turbo and a few other things - I think a set of ITBs would do wonders for the engine... Then we would aim for a bit more than 300rwhp. Can run whatever wheels I want. Most of the front running 944s run 16". Have 2 full set of Turbo SE wheels taking space in the garage, may actually put some rubber on them. At present the car has Pagid RS29 pads and Castrol SRF brake fluid. I think I will change the brake fluid, since it is one year old.

I think Thom has it nailed - in standard form, my GTS 5-spd would simply monster any standard 944. Fact of life, there is no substitute for cubic inches and sheer grunt, massive brakes which work and suspension design which makes even hamfisted drivers look good. It is not about communication thru the steering wheel or delicacy, which the 944 has plenty of, it is about a suspension design which simply flattens the road, and inspires confidence - something the 928 excels at.

Thom

While I quite enjoyed the GT, what you describe above became quite obvious from the GTS I drove later. The ride was harsh and the engine felt way too linear and overstretched. It drove like a truck. The GTS pushed the 928 design a step too far IMO.