333pg333

Just wondering what 'kit' you're using and what is involved?

Looking at Racpak for something. http://www.racepak.com/Sensors/Temperature.php

So I assume we need the sensors and cables that run into that V-net module but does that then simply run off to your ECU to then be able to tune/trim each cylinder or are there other components that need to be purchased?

Dubai944

You still using the Motec? If so I don't think you need any special module.
My headers are tapped for 4 wide band sensors, which run through Innovate LC1's and are setup as 4 analog inputs. This is separate to the primary wideband sensor. Each channel is setup as a custom axis for individual cylinder fuel trim. EGT sensors are simpler. You should be able to run them straight into the Motec and use them in a similar way. Check with your tuner.

Black51

I think guys like Dnovak and Rogue and Blown944 are who I'd be calling to find out about that stuff. Don't know what it costs per minute to talk to the US on the phone from Australia though haha.

333pg333

Yes, running the M400. Not a great pic but also running bungs straight out of the motor on top of headers. Just wasn't sure if you could literally plug n play with something like that Racepak kit and then straight into the Motec?

thingo

If I remember correctly the aem thermocouple amplifier is a decent solution.

Dubai944

With Motec I am pretty sure you don't need the complication or expense of anything like that Racepak kit or any type of amplifier. You just need 4 EGT sensors. They have a signal wire and a common 0 volt wire. you just wire them directly into the Motec using four available AT inputs to configure each one. Then you can log your EGTs and display them on your dash if you want. A tuner familiar with Motec configuration can also use the signals to create tables for individual cylinder fuel or ignition trim depending on how you want to use it.

CDS58053 EGT Sensor 1000C.pdf

333pg333

Thanks Rod and Steve.
I want the complete kit from probe to ECU. I'll contact AEM and see what they have. The guy that installed all the wiring, sensors and ECU into my car had this to say when I mentioned that a previous tuner had been experiencing issues on the engine dyno. Specifically that 2 of the 4 cylinders were way hotter than the others (my recollection was that the 2 centre cylinders were the hot ones) but mostly only on low throttle openings. His assessment was that it had something to do with the large headers and racehead overwhelming the stock intake and creating these issues. I stopped work on that motor and brought it back to me down here before the final answer was found. Anyway, this is what the engineer down here said in response to my questions about EGTs.

"My quick lesson on egt's and I had to do a lot of research on these for a couple of big drag projects that I have been involved in [mid 7 to high 6 second cars]
1 - egt temps are only a gauge and a split between cylinders is always present, Egt probes are heavily relied upon in methanol cars as the mixture is so rich that lambda sensors have a limited life so the egt probe gives a more reliable reading
2 - egt temps are heavily influenced more by ignition maps than fuel maps and this can be a problem, 1 degree of ignition advance can take 60 degrees out of the egt but can also lead to detonation, 1% of fuel trim [extra] will not give the same reduction in egt temp it may take 2 or 3 % to acheive the same result
3 - all egt systems are not the same, some egt probes are much faster than others, egt probe location in the manifold must be identical to achieve any kind of accurate results, if the system does not have temperature compensation built in it will not give accurate results
Basically the egt system works on reading a small chance in voltage produced at the point at which 2 dissimilar metals are joined, the reading occurs at the connection point [usually a yellow K type connector], if 1 cylinder egt connection point is located in a 20 degrees hotter location than another it will read 20 degrees hotter even though the cylinders are at exactly the same temp, some units incorporate cjc sensors to correct this feature, if you look closely at the engine sensor loom I left with paul you would have seen cjc sensors incorporated into the egt connector.
The voltage produced by an egt probe is milliamps, the voltage is then amplified to a readable voltage so a small error at the sensor connector point can lead to a huge error at the ecu
4 - I have run individual egt probes into cars with a vipec at the request of the tuner so that he could do individual cylinder tunes, despite the tuners effort the individual cylinder temps were always out by over 100 degrees Celsius, the motec cars that i have wired the individual split is much closer, im happy to send you some log files if you would like 2 see the results [both cars had cjc correction sensors in the looms]
5- i would be really surprised if the intake manifold was the cause for this, usually the factory manifolds are a little to long [but this is done for cruising torque] but the cylinder splits are very similar, you have to remember that the factory has unlimited budget when they design a new engine so its really unlikely they would settle on a flawed design for the production car.. The manifold on your engine was used by the factory for the turbo engine so im sure its more than adequate for the boost levels your running at this time on the dyno, is it possible to research what design they used on the factory race versions of the car? "

However my take is that I don't want to risk the new motor with the stock intake and at least not use EGTs to check on the dyno. I am waiting for a new intake which will be something nice but may have to use the stock one as a stop gap part.

EDIT: Thanks Steve, I'm sure it's not a problem. Just doing a bit of research on a Sunday afternoon. ps...any progress on your car?

Dubai944

As with all things Motec the EGT sensors they recommend and supply might be more expensive, but I would guess you will get good results with them. Wiring them in is a cinch. Configuring them for logging is easy. Setting them up to be used as automatic trim input should be straight forward. Why not indivdual AFRs for trim?

Progress on my car is that I have finally unpacked enough boxes from the garage at the new house to actually be able to find the car again!

333pg333

Well we can of course run individual AFRs but on the basis of what the previous tuner found I am a little cautious of ignoring EGTs especially if we run the stock intake temporarily.

Ha, well that's a good start on your car at least. Finding is good.

URG8RB8

When you say your headers are tapped for four WB sensors, are you referring to WBO2 sensors? Do you get a good reading straight out of the head? No heat issues? Longevity? Sorry, just curious.

thingo

You still need the thermocouple amplifiers with the motec, that is one of the reasons I chose the aem, the motec sensors are nothing special, and they are not the value choice.
And of course you need enough inputs to run the egts

333pg333

Did you tune yours incorporating EGTs Rod?

thingo

Na I just having them sitting in a box at home(i quite a few widebands too..)

Dubai944

No you don't need an amplifier. Read the spec sheet pdf I attached in the previous post. It says:

"The R1000 EGT allows high temperature measurement up to 1000 °C without the need for thermocouple amplifiers."

As i read it, It's a straight wire in, as per the spec sheet. And the Motec has plenty of spare AT channels.

thingo

If my memory is correct I was advised that the r1000 would not be suitable, it was either the response and/or the temperature range, I've certainly seen 1000C downstream