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T-Bar Delete with Roll Center correction and Rod ends. COMPLETE!

 
Old 07-10-2013, 02:13 PM
  #46  
chrenan
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Originally Posted by theamsoilguy View Post
Ive got mine from Bruce and have not installed it yet. Lets find out if the bent one is the same as what was just produced. If what is current needs some beefing up, etc. I guess I can take mine out of the box and take a picture tonight of the tabs\bracing that it has.
Well, the bars Justin and I received in May do not have the additional mounting tabs in the center of the bar. To me they look identical to the one that bent and will both be used in similar application to the one that bent. I'm not a happy camper. Bruce?

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Old 07-10-2013, 04:33 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by robstah View Post
To the owners of the other setups, are they capped or hollow/accessible inside the square channel? I ask because if one could find some DOM tubing that would slip it on the inside, I know it would add more weight, but should definitely increase the strength.
Inside the square channel is not accessible, its capped.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:50 PM
  #48  
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So are we saying those tabs are the difference between this piece working or not? Is that the main difference between this and the Kokeln unit?
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:56 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by 333pg333 View Post
So are we saying those tabs are the difference between this piece working or not? Is that the main difference between this and the Kokeln unit?
This one doesn't have tabs.

https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...is-wheels.html

Or this one

https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...tructions.html
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:26 PM
  #50  
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Guys,
I have had one of Bruce's T-Bar delete in my track car for the past 6 month. Originally it had the Hiem/turn-buckle designed plates and we had some reliability issues. But changed the Plates out with the Chromoly Flat Plates and so far they have been working great. I have between 6-8 races with the new Plates. This car has Penske Coilovers and we have ran with 750#springs on the front and 900# on the rear. The last race I softened the springs and went to 800# on rear. In addition this car has 18 X 10" wheels with 275 X 35 DOT Slicks both Toyo RR's and NT01's
The car weighs between 2600-2650 with me in it depending on battery and cool suit.
Max
BTW both my units do not have the additional tabs
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:44 PM
  #51  
chrenan
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Originally Posted by Max Energy View Post
Guys,
I have had one of Bruce's T-Bar delete in my track car for the past 6 month. Originally it had the Hiem/turn-buckle designed plates and we had some reliability issues.
I know Bruce mentioned this, and ours came with the later Chromoly Flat Plates, but what exactly were the reliability issues you saw? Was it bending of the delete bar like North Coast Cab saw or something different?
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:13 PM
  #52  
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To further add rumor and unknowns, Bruce mentioned to me he was building one with a thinner box tube for someone that wanted a lighter version for a race car. Could it be this one? If not it might be extra worrisome for that person.

Last edited by Eric_k; 07-10-2013 at 06:14 PM. Reason: can't type
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:32 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by chrenan View Post
Three, the torsion bar delete is in mint condition so I'll get top dollar for it at the scrap yard if that is the only thing I can do with it. I should be able to make pennies back on the dollar!
Isn't that what Ebay is for?
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:42 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by robstah View Post
To the owners of the other setups, are they capped or hollow/accessible inside the square channel? I ask because if one could find some DOM tubing that would slip it on the inside, I know it would add more weight, but should definitely increase the strength.
That won't help the strength much unless you use a very heavy structural shape and it gets welded in place. The square tube is a torsion box structure. To bend it you need to have a side wall deform or a bottom plate suffer a tensile failure (not likely!). Plating the side walls may help or finding a light but uncompressible filler in side the tube.

Attaching it to the 4 bolts holding the body brace is the quick, easy and effective fix.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:17 PM
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Pics of the body brace?
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:20 PM
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First off, I emailed Bruce last week and have not heard back. I spoke to another buyer who has been missing pieces for a very longtime and after not hearing from Bruce I decided to post the picture so nobody else goes down the road until things are squared away. I have actually been trying to buy another set-up for a friend for months and have been unable to get it done.

I commend Bruce for taking the initiative to build this thing and considering the upgrades on my car it was a no brainer to make one more step. My installation set-up included the addition of a rear undertray and an additional 100lbs rear spring. They are very stiff and are coupled with Tarret sway bars and all solid/spherical Racers Edge bushings, Motons etc. 2650lb, 275 Hoosiers

I paid for the unit a very long time ago and waited quite a while to receive it. It did originally come with the split spring plate with the quick adjuster for toe. He notified me the spring plate design was subpar and that he was sending me replacement which was great. The replacement was of a more traditional design and forced the toe adjustment to be done like the stock set-up. Not what I wanted for $1000 put I was anxious. It turns out another local fellow used the split plate set-up and the adjuster bent almost immediately and ultimately broke. I had it tested and it was made from 1018, a very subpar material for the application. I still have those plates and have actually been working on making a replacement adjuster so I could use them.

It was not until now that I realized it did not have the center support on the original design. If you Google the Kokeln one you can find a picture of it and it has two center supports. Also, a local guy has one and after inspecting mine he tells me it is significantly heavier and stronger.

So I drive aggressively, often using the curbing and throwing the car around. The car got squirmy on track so I came in. I immediately noticed the excessive negative rear camber so up went the car. The AL factory end pieces, not sure what to call them, pulled down about 3/4" on each side. I removed the solid mount and tried to draw it back up, but there was an alignment issue. Next I took the entire rear end off and once removed noticed the bend and kink of the center section.

I'm no engineer, but once you pick-up this unit and then the stock one you will have concern over the strength. It's about 24lbs lighter and given a 2700lb car, stiff suspension, and racing forces it's just not up to par in my view. Also, the stock set-up went back in seamlessly so there were no ill effects to the balance of the suspension of car.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:54 PM
  #57  
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What spring rates do you run?
In your opinion do you think these can be modified to make them work safely?
The main advantage I was look for from this item was the raised pickup points apart from the weight savings.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:15 PM
  #58  
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1000lb
I don't know but I think everything needs to be stronger and I think that center mounting point is critical. Weight savings is a nice side benefit, but the goal was the relocated pick-up points. I'd also note I had a hard time with the camber adjustment and could not get the setting as low as I'd like given the ride height. I would stand-up the inner mounts a little as well.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:29 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by robstah View Post
...its not the first time someone has ripped out mounting points on a 944. After looking at cut up parts car bodies, some of the mounting points definitely worry me.
This is a bit off topic, but do you mainly mean in the rear, or are there also weak ones at the front?
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:43 PM
  #60  
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Sway bar is the Tarret, don't know the dimension off hand and it is almost always run full soft.
I do not have the set-up close, but the bend is not centered on the weld points. The welds and powder coating look good. It is a long sweeping bend with a kink on the flat portion of the tube near the center. Sorry about the pictures, iPhone lens is messed up.
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