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T-Bar Delete with Roll Center correction and Rod ends. COMPLETE!

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T-Bar Delete with Roll Center correction and Rod ends. COMPLETE!

Old 07-22-2012, 10:35 PM
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95ONE
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Default T-Bar Delete with Roll Center correction and Rod ends. COMPLETE!

Like always, it was a long road. This time I had to make another one for someone else, So I couldn't just fab one up. I had to make plans and specs. I made a few jig pieces for consistency. And like Always, I found MUCH cooler parts to use for Patricks than with mine. There are also some finer / fancier details that I programmed into CAD for a better finish / look on his piece. My piece is the one in the picture. It has a big dip in the middle to clear all the lowered stuff. The other will not have this. The CNC Plasma Machine certainly helped out quite a bit.

uncharacteristically, That's all I'm going to say and post up the pics. I have a time frame to meet so I can get my car in the paint booth tomorrow.

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Old 07-22-2012, 10:43 PM
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I want skills like you have!
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:44 PM
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that looks real nice! well done!
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by fast924S View Post
I want skills like you have!
Thanks! Its easy. Just start welding now and do it every day for at least 5 years. 12 for me. Honestly though, I had a friend that I hate for how quickly he picked up welding. His welds were beautiful within 6 months! There is a lot of technical information he didn't know, and comes with time, but some people just pick this stuff up. I've been designing since I was a kid though. I took 3 years of Architectural Auto Cad in high school. More in college of course. I never got a degree, but I'm sure if I go back, I could complete about 3 of them with all my random courses.

Originally Posted by Paulyy View Post
that looks real nice! well done!
Thank you sir. Although my Powder Coated Solid subframe mounts (Aluminum end pieces) do bling it up a bit.

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Old 07-22-2012, 11:58 PM
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That's awesome, I only did some very light cad stuff in high school, Went to school for automotive an became a master tech for toyota, been doing that for 10 years, but I wann build up my fab skills, Wish there was someone in the area I could pickup skills from
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:06 AM
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Looks fantastic Bruce! Better than I'd expected. Congratulations for a great job well done.
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Old 07-23-2012, 01:31 AM
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Very nice. I only have one question. How much to make me one?
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:30 AM
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Nicely done, great job.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:49 AM
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Thom
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Sorry for being thick but what is this going to bring over a stock rear axle, apart perhaps being slightly less heavy?
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:00 AM
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Interesting project... looks nice...

Did you do any FEA or stress analysis on the cad designs, AND did you direct port the CAD or are you using a secondary software package to generate the CAM files (assuming G-Code, but I could be wrong).

I would be interested to see an FEA done, also interested in the quality standards you are working under (I am at heart a QE, but work with PTC Creo almost daily, have worked in everything from a lab to a FAB Factory, and lately have been doing more and more FEA using PTC Simulate and ANSYS)...

On a related topic.... if going to this extreme... why not totally redesign the rear end to eliminate the short comings of the trailing arm design? (OR are you guys required by class to maintain the rear end trailing arms the cars were origionally delivered with?
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Thom View Post
Sorry for being thick but what is this going to bring over a stock rear axle, apart perhaps being slightly less heavy?
By moving the pivot point for the trailing arm up, and eliminating any rubber parts you correct the roll center on a lowered car, and eliminate deflection of the suspension on cornering..

You also add adjustability to the rear end geometry, alowing for better setup for a given car, to make the handling more predictable...
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:38 AM
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Van
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More accurately, by raising the roll center up, you're: a) getting it closer to the same plane as the front roll center (if you're using geometry correcting control arm pins); and b) you're reducing the moment arm from the center of gravity, which will reduce body roll and will thus reduce alignment changes during cornering.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:49 AM
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SICK. very well done.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:53 AM
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Awesome work

Looking forward to seeing it in your car.

Jason
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Old 07-23-2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 333pg333 View Post
Looks fantastic Bruce! Better than I'd expected. Congratulations for a great job well done.
Thank you Patrick! Very glad you think so. Your bar is extremely close to being finished. It is actually nicer than mine in the top picture. Most of your pieces are in the pics below that though. Also, there won't be a dip in the middle like mine, as it is not necessary.

Originally Posted by chrenan View Post
Very nice. I only have one question. How much to make me one?
Throw me a PM if you are serious.

Originally Posted by disasterman View Post
Nicely done, great job.
Thank you Sir. I can't wait to take pics of the whole drive train and suspension on the ground, just like the advertisement. The only exception is that the only thing left of the'86 951 will be the transmission! No kidding, that's it. Everything else is custom or from another year, or been modified.

Originally Posted by Thom View Post
Sorry for being thick but what is this going to bring over a stock rear axle, apart perhaps being slightly less heavy?
As stated below, the pivot point has been raised, therefore correcting for roll center, as it has also been moved a very small amount rearward. It has Rod Ends on the swing arms (solid spherical) To keep alignment specs from being as dynamic as a compliant stock set up. It also solves the difficulty in aligning the rear suspension by not having to get the camber and Toe exactly right at the same time when you tighten the bolts down. You can now get the toe close when adjusting for Camber. Tighten down the bolts, then you can adjust toe with the Turnbuckle that is designed in for easy adjustment after the fact.

Only downside is that you MUST have a full coilover set up to use it.
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