The factory lines plug right into the Lexus calps m10 x 1.0 with a crush washer. Of course use stainless braided lines to get rid of any pedal sponge.

 

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I think of decelerating performance as being the proverbial chain that is only as strong as its weakest link. The links include the tires, the calipers, the rotors, the pads, and the fluid.

A modern porsche or any other car cannot out-brake the tires. Think about it. You can add more and more power to the brakes, but when you exceed the power of the tires, it doesn't matter.

What better brakes get you is not more violence or more force (at least for the purposes of this conversation where we are talking about pretty good brakes to start with), they get you the ability to absorb and dissipate more heat, which means freedom from fade so that you can *maintain* the level of performance of your tires over a greater number of stops.

Back to the deceleration performance chain:

First link is tires. Get good ones and you will be able to stop faster.

As long as your brakes provide you the ability to lock your tires in any condition you want to be able to, they are ok.

But, if not, the next link is to get better pads with a higher coefficient of friction (and temperature range).

Now you can lock the tires, for at least a couple of consecutive stops. If you start to get fade: get better pads (with an even higher temperature range).

Now you are going to start to put stress on the fluid, and it may become the weak link. So get better fluid, preferably before it boils and your pedal gets long.

At this point, the pads are going to become the weak link again. There are a couple of things you can do: the more cost effective option is to blast some air over the rotor to keep it (and by extension the pads) cooler. If you've tried that and it's not sufficient, then get a bigger rotor, which will act as a bigger heat sink, keeping it cooler for longer, as well as providing a larger radius such that your pads produce more torque.

I guess the bottom line for me is that if you want to get bigger brakes for bling, then go for it. If you are doing this for performance reasons, first ask yourself if you are able to lock up the tires. If the answer is always yes, then you are fine. If the answer is sometimes no, then there are more cost-effective options (like pads and fluid, and even ducts). I can't imagine a street driven 951 that *needs* bigger brakes.

 

6 & 4-piston monoblock conversions were done years ago. Did them with a friend of mine first time about six, seven years ago. You can find a lot of info installing them. I have put the same pictures so many times, that i won't do it again.... Use search, so you find the info you are looking for.

 

I have 355mm (14") full floating setup on my 951S, uses the S4 caliper too.

I engaged Brembo & ProSystems (Brembo's mafr) to help me with my setup.

I can have extras made too: runs about $1400 total using the rotor pictured above (Not a Brembo, but a RB made to replace the standard Brembo 355mm x 32mm ring.

Bolts right up in about an hour, no machining or cutting. Also works with the BigRed/Black calipers as shown in the photo next to the 996TT rotor above.

Mark

 

Very nice- not too much bling at all- kind of subtle but you know it's there! How is the initial bite and feel - what pad are you using for those of us who would like to duplicate? What's the additional weight over stock rotors but I assume the increased braking power outweigh the additional mass?

 

This makes alot of sense.

 

Mark, what does that hat and rotor combo weigh? Looks good.

 

same weight within 1lb of your stock Turbo-S (S4) rotor. I use a stock off-the-shelf pad, even an AutoZone: you don't need more bite when you have a cooler, slotted rotor: it bites as-per factor with less resistance to fade. I simply notched the pads so they fit deeper into the caliper so that they sit further on the rotor, providing about 97-98% annulus coverage.

Mark

 

I should steal these from my RSR setup :-)


Actually I should, the RSR is 250hp and 2100lbs
and my new 951 is surely > 3000lbs and > 400hp

Mike

 

Mike you coming over tomorrow night for the PCA tech session at my house?? Can see that brake setup if you wish. 7-10pm, drinks & dinner included.

Mark

 

???. I don't get informed of my weekends until my twin Bosses tell me what I'm doing :-0

Maybe I'll have my 951 :-)

BTW, what size rims do you need to run those brakes/rotors?
I'm not sure what size that is coming with this 951 (there's a street set and some slicks coming (993's I think with early offset).

I also have several rims from the 944's and Boxsters that all fit the early offset of the '86 951, but I don't think they are wide enough.

Mike

 

XSelent. I finally procured a set of Integras that have every pad imaginable with shallow and deep pads too.

 

Reminds me of a Family Guy Quote: Brian Griffin to Peter: Yeah, nobody's judging you, man. It's cool. I'll just put this back in your purse next to your tampons.

 

well, all true and yet there is much more to it. you can always lock up the brakes on almost any car if you press hard enough. what you get with larger brakes is fade resistance and also stronger grip which is obviously more noticeable and important at higher speeds. and then there is also modulation and feel which might not necessarily be a factor of larger brakes but usually seems to accompany them.

also, if you're running a 400-500hp 951 and using stock brakes, that just makes no sense to me. porsche upgraded the stock 951 brakes when they added 30hp on the 952! do you think they would have used the same brakes if they had sold a 400hp 944 turbo?

bling is in the eye of the beholder but there is no substitute for good braking!

R&T tested the 944 turbo braking at 60-0....133' and 80-0....237', while an AMG SL63 which weighs about 50% more is at 112' and 192' for the same test. of course, tires are better now and but that is still a huge difference considering the weight difference.

i would have agreed with you guys had this been about 2 years earlier but since that time i've driven a bunch of car events from porsche and AMG and i could not believe the braking of all of the cars. all across the board, these cars had incredible brakes which i had never felt before. the only word i can think of to describe them is "violent!" and on top of that, they are easy to get the most out of, of course with modern ABS being a factor but also in just the feel and modulation. my 951 can't come close to them and that's even using a semi race pad versus the AMG street pads. no comparison, not even in the same ballpark, completely different animals, etc. etc.

damn, now you got me sad about my 951's brakes by making me remember those newer cars.....still, that being said, the my 951's brakes feel great in normal everyday driving and don't seem to be lacking in feel or stopping power. it's only in an emergency or when i hit the canyons which i notice things but that's kinda what big brakes are for, aren't they? but if i had 400hp, i would feel irresponsible using these brakes, or uncomfortable at best!

 

That's not the only reason though: for us track guys, if you have much larger rotors you're likely to have cooler rotors, you'll have cooler fluid and less bleedings between races. Also, a track-designed rotor will last longer than a street rotor: different cooling veins, larger diameter means less heat & less friction to apply the same clamping pressure.

Mark