David J. Harrington

Well, I will be purchasing a stand alone system sometime this summer, and have started some research. After reading some of the posts by other users about Haltech (E6K) and Autronic (SMC) being comparable in price to the SDS unit, I got intrigued. Here is a little about what I found:

Autronic SMC- The autronic is built by an ex-Motec guy, and it looks to be a nice unit. I called the US distributor today and got the scoop on pricing. The unit retails for $1300. This includes all sensors except for a crank trigger. The MAP is internal, so you just route a manifold line to the computer (much like the stock KLR boost sensing line). This option was sounding pretty good, until he mentioned the pricing for the Direct Fire CDI, which is ~$600. You need this to do direct fire ignition. You can also use MSD, but this option is still a few hundred. All in all, the unit sounds pretty capable. With a 4-cyl engine, you have quite a few outputs to run whatever you want: fans, wastegate, etc. BTW, he has a boost control unit for $79 that gets its signal from the Autronic, which is pretty cheap. Adding the autotune function adds $200 ... sadly.

Haltech E6K- This unit seems very similar in functions to the autronic. It does not have an autotune function, but seems to do everything else in a similar manner. It's base price is $1145 through a retailer in Australia (yes, those are US dollers). A 3-bar MAP sensor is an extra $112. Boost control $80. Looks like it may support the stock distributor ignition, but if you want direct fire, you pay extra.

SDS- I think most of us have anough info on these, but in summary: no boost control built in, no data logging (but could be fabricated with some simple circuits .. well, simple for my dad anyways, not me ). The price is $1134 with direct fire, and $90 for a 3bar MAP.

If SDS had a PWM output (to run a boost controller) it would be an easy choice for me, but i may do some further investigation on the Haltech (ignition-wise). I have probably excluded any more ventures into the Autronics system, however.

Any thoughts out there?

Dave

M Danger

Wel if ther was a way to connect the SDS to my laptop (along with software) id go for it, I like the autronic but the price gets up there with the add ons.
Still not sure about the haltech, Konstanin(sp?) doesnt seem to like it.

But have you looked into the link system?
for the price its starting to sound better and better.

David J. Harrington

I have read about the link some, but it is a piggyback, from what i understand, so I am trying to avoid it.

Dave

keith

What about DTAfast? Like DEVEK sells?

Nicolas

Hello

I think you have been mistaken ; Autronic and Halltech are able of Direct Fire Ignition out of the box , the CDI proposed by autronic is not mandatory....
CDI ignition is "a plus" in certain point of view but you can drive simple coils with these systems and upgrade to cCDI later.

Check also DTA P8PRO that has boost control- traction control and anti-lag built in...
BTW it has an autotune also.


The SDS looks fine but is very primitive compare to these Hightech systems.

Check the scale of the mapping and ignition accuracy.(not even talking of aux. outputs)

The best to do is to download the software of these ECU and see which one is the most friendly.

Personnaly I am locked on the DTA which is working under Windows 98


Good Luck

PS: The wiring of the DTA is very close of the stock 968 wiring (some wire to replug in the AMP connector)

Konstantin

hello
First off all you must clarify if teh price you gor for teh Autronic is for the SMC or for the SM2 (better). I think the sequntial do not cost extra? How can they want another $600 if the whole unit inclunding wires cost only $1200??

I put the Autronic SM2 in #1 because it has teh Autotune and teh wire harness is included. This would change if it would need another $600 for the CDI!!!
<a href="http://www.turbofast.com.au/autronic/sm2ecu.html" target="_blank">http://www.turbofast.com.au/autronic/sm2ecu.html</a>

Then I would go to the DTA sinc eteh vendor in Europe told me that the wire harnes can be easily made out of the stock one.. It is almost the same money but ( I think) it do not has an Autotune?? (Nicolas)
I do not see any adavndage on the DTA over the Autronic (if autronic cost $1200 ) except that the DTA runs on 32 Mhz vs 16 Mhz but I do not know if this is realy important for our use.

Till know I think that the DTA cost the same do not have the wire harness and do not have an autotune. (maybe I am wrong)

<a href="http://www.dtafast.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.dtafast.co.uk/</a>

the SDS would be the simplest since I already know of a very famous racer and tune rin Germany who already put this in his 924 Carrera GT
he also made somwething and the SDS can control Boost conect to lap top etc.
check:
<a href="http://www.luepertz-motorsport.de/" target="_blank">http://www.luepertz-motorsport.de/</a>

<a href="http://www.sdsefi.com/" target="_blank">http://www.sdsefi.com/</a>

the Haltech seems similar to others but the dealer sin Geramny I saw are not the best, the car that they are use are also nothing special, the software seems dificullt to work with and from what i hear you really need a dyno to tune it and you need someone who relay know his job (big $$ just for tuning) I want to know what I will spent when the ECU is running pewrfect in my car and not only what i have to pay for teh ECU only!

<a href="http://www.haltech.com/Products/ECUs/E6H_M/e6h_m.html" target="_blank">http://www.haltech.com/Products/ECUs/E6H_M/e6h_m.html</a>

othewise if someone wnats just a piggy back system that works nice and it is cheap and make 400 HP on a 2.5 L just buy the system from john.
It is plug in and comes ready premaped. No big deal to install it, it works and you do not have the problems to program it right.

The down side is it do not hav e a boost control but it has daat loging
For $400 is a very good deal since you avoid all the install and programing problems.

I already order it! The problem is I wnat to have control on everything in my car and the mor ethe better but I do not wnat to spent hours to change every wire to make it work in my car and I do not hav eteh money to pay a Profi ECU programm to tune my car perfect.
That why in case I will not like the piggy back from John I will probably go to the Autronic becaus eof teh Autotune. It is easy to go to the dyno and spent 30 min to tune it perfectly after you hav ea nice map with the Autotune make it on the road. I will make soem 0-300 km/h runs on the Autobahn and thats it ;-)
A downside on this si that if teh piggy back makes 400 HP out of the 2.5 l how much more can a Stand alone system make? I would NOT try to install and program a stand alone for another 20 HP more. It is not worth the hassle.

I will tell you when I have tested the piggy back from John. He had and tuned a Motec in his car and he knows the difference.

Konstantin
PS1 (soon I will have an ARC2 for sale;-)
PS2 if anyone knows of pro and contra on the above systems please post your opinion. I do not have any first hand experience with them. It is only what I read and heard about them.

Duke

Where can one get more information about the piggy-back system you're talking about?

David J. Harrington

Nicolas, the distributor for Autronic told me you cannot run direct fire out of the box. You must have a control unit. Autronic makes one (the Direct Fire CDI) which is $600, or you can buy an MSD unit (which he said was $300). He then said if you use wasted spark, it is a little cheaper. However, if you wanted to run a distributor, you just need a coil that supplies dwell time (I am not sure if ours does, but tbe VW Rabbit's is a direct replacement.

As far as Autotune goes, yuo have to pay $200 extra for that option, sothe price goes from $1299 to $1499.

I forgot all about DTA, I guess that's what I will do today.

Dave

Konstantin

can someone explain the advandage of a Direct Fire CDI over a rotor one?

here are the prices in AU$ that I got for our cars:
-----------------------------

Konstantin
You will need the following.

SM2 $2250 (includes, harness, air and water temp sensor, internal map sensor, PC data cable,
software and manual).
Reluctor interface $95
Bosch 008 module $160
No1 spark plug pickup $105
Shipping via DHL $108

You may also need a boost control valve $130 if you want the ECU to control the boost pressure.

Ray Hall.
-------------
use <a href="http://www.oanda.com/converter/classic" target="_blank">http://www.oanda.com/converter/classic</a>
to convert to US $

Konstantin

David J. Harrington

Konstantin- I believe the main benefit of direct fire is that there are less parts to fail. I am not sure that any of us would notice direct fire being better than the stock ignition as long as the coil is in good condition. Maybe I am wrong here. I just would like to go to no rotor since I am upgrading anyways.

I can't find a dealer for DTA, anyone have one?

Dave

951and944S

Dave, try.....

<a href="http://www.devek.net" target="_blank">Devek</a>

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

toddk911

Anyone know info about The Racer's Group's "UNICHIP" piggy back system???

M Danger

[quote]Originally posted by Konstantin:
[QB]
othewise if someone wnats just a piggy back system that works nice and it is cheap and make 400 HP on a 2.5 L just buy the system from john.
It is plug in and comes ready premaped. No big deal to install it, it works and you do not have the problems to program it right.

The down side is it do not hav e a boost control but it has daat loging
For $400 is a very good deal since you avoid all the install and programing problems.

I already order it! The problem is I wnat to have control on everything in my car and the mor ethe better but I do not wnat to spent hours to change every wire to make it work in my car and I do not hav eteh money to pay a Profi ECU programm to tune my car perfect.
That why in case I will not like the piggy back from John I will probably go to the Autronic becaus eof teh Autotune. It is easy to go to the dyno and spent 30 min to tune it perfectly after you hav ea nice map with the Autotune make it on the road. I will make soem 0-300 km/h runs on the Autobahn and thats it ;-)
A downside on this si that if teh piggy back makes 400 HP out of the 2.5 l how much more can a Stand alone system make? I would NOT try to install and program a stand alone for another 20 HP more. It is not worth the hassle.
QB]<hr></blockquote>
What piggy back system you talking about?
Whos John?

Did you check out the Link2?? it has auto tune also

I also agree if 400 is possible with just an MAF then Id' expect a MINIMUN of 50hp more with a stand alone
500 would be nice

Russ Murphy

There's not really any difference (except maybe a little more freedom on intake design) between a MAF w/ stock computer w/ custom chips for your application and programmable engine management system other than the fact you can change programming yourself if you alter your application. The key is complete control over the fuel and timing requirements of your engine regardless of how you get there.

rage2

[quote]Originally posted by M Danger:
<strong>I also agree if 400 is possible with just an MAF then Id' expect a MINIMUN of 50hp more with a stand alone
500 would be nice </strong><hr></blockquote>

Paul makes 400rwhp using MAF at 25psi. I make 380rwhp using SDS at 20psi. I'm hoping to clear the 400 mark at 20psi with wideband tuning and a bit more agressive timing at 20psi. I'm probably not going to push 25psi because I get about 1/4 second of overboost on fast shifts (I currently hit 24psi for a 1/4 second on speed shifts).