Valvetrain noise at idle
11-22-2011, 10:07 AM
#17
I ignore if I'm a moron but I'm pretty sure I'd have to be dead drunk to install the gasket the wrong way around.
- I could see oil flowing generously into the cambox with the engine on
- on some of its recesses, near the hole for the oil check valve or the hole for the mounting bolts, the gasket can be slightly wider than the cam housing, and I clearly noticed the recess near the hole for the check valve.
-> I'm positive the gasket is intalled correctly.
- I could see oil flowing generously into the cambox with the engine on
- on some of its recesses, near the hole for the oil check valve or the hole for the mounting bolts, the gasket can be slightly wider than the cam housing, and I clearly noticed the recess near the hole for the check valve.
-> I'm positive the gasket is intalled correctly.
11-22-2011, 10:37 AM
#18
Nordschleife Master
11-22-2011, 10:44 AM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Indianapolis,IN
Posts: 1,408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thom, I wasn't calling you a moron, just defending my position of the gasket being suspect. 1 wiped lobe could happen to anyone. 2 is some pretty bad luck. 3 is something altogether different, especially when you have visually verified good oil flow in the box.
I'm not even sure of what I'd do if it were mine. Probably pull the box, which you're obviously getting good at, and lay a straight edge across the valves.
I'm not even sure of what I'd do if it were mine. Probably pull the box, which you're obviously getting good at, and lay a straight edge across the valves.
11-22-2011, 10:53 AM
#20
No offense taken Ted, I thought your comment was a good excuse to reply with a tongue-in-cheek comment.
Some things I forgot to mention, though I'm not sure they could be relevant :
The known-to-be-good lifters now in use were totally emptied from accumulated filthy oil and cleaned with brake cleaner. Instead of soaking them in oil for a while prior to putting back the cam tower on the head, I put them back straight into the cam tower. When I started the engine, they were expectedly LOUD.
I did 300 straight miles since and they seemed to have filled up somehow, as they are now far less noisy than on start up, however they are now as noisy as described in the orignal post - not impossibly loud but suspiciously loud, and at idle only.
Hopefully they just need to further fill up (10W60 is a "heavy" oil grade), but I don't really see this happening after having driven already 300 miles...
Some things I forgot to mention, though I'm not sure they could be relevant :
The known-to-be-good lifters now in use were totally emptied from accumulated filthy oil and cleaned with brake cleaner. Instead of soaking them in oil for a while prior to putting back the cam tower on the head, I put them back straight into the cam tower. When I started the engine, they were expectedly LOUD.
I did 300 straight miles since and they seemed to have filled up somehow, as they are now far less noisy than on start up, however they are now as noisy as described in the orignal post - not impossibly loud but suspiciously loud, and at idle only.
Hopefully they just need to further fill up (10W60 is a "heavy" oil grade), but I don't really see this happening after having driven already 300 miles...
Last edited by Thom; 11-22-2011 at 11:10 AM.
11-22-2011, 11:21 AM
#21
Rennlist Member
11-22-2011, 11:25 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
No offense taken Ted, I thought your comment was a good excuse to reply with a tongue-in-cheek comment.
Some things I forgot to mention, though I'm not sure they could be relevant :
The known-to-be-good lifters now in use were totally emptied from accumulated filthy oil and cleaned with brake cleaner. Instead of soaking them in oil for a while prior to putting back the cam tower on the head, I put them back straight into the cam tower. When I started the engine, they were expectedly LOUD.
I did 300 straight miles since and they seemed to have filled up somehow, as they are now far less noisy than on start up, however they are now as noisy as described in the orignal post - not impossibly loud but suspiciously loud, and at idle only.
Hopefully they just need to further fill up (10W60 is a "heavy" oil grade), but I don't really see this happening after having driven already 300 miles...
Some things I forgot to mention, though I'm not sure they could be relevant :
The known-to-be-good lifters now in use were totally emptied from accumulated filthy oil and cleaned with brake cleaner. Instead of soaking them in oil for a while prior to putting back the cam tower on the head, I put them back straight into the cam tower. When I started the engine, they were expectedly LOUD.
I did 300 straight miles since and they seemed to have filled up somehow, as they are now far less noisy than on start up, however they are now as noisy as described in the orignal post - not impossibly loud but suspiciously loud, and at idle only.
Hopefully they just need to further fill up (10W60 is a "heavy" oil grade), but I don't really see this happening after having driven already 300 miles...
11-22-2011, 03:10 PM
#23
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Indianapolis,IN
Posts: 1,408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mine were loud after a being restarted, which is pretty common. They went quiet with a two minute 3500-4000 RPM rev in the driveway. On the next cold start they seemed quieter then before, but still too loud, so another warmup cycle followed by 4000RPM for a few minutes. Been quiet ever since.
I would completely understand your hesitation to try this with the luck you've had, though.
I would completely understand your hesitation to try this with the luck you've had, though.
11-22-2011, 04:28 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
I have had loud lifters before from car being sat for many months, the noise is quite distinctive but goes away within 5 minutes or less of driven. I do not believe that it would take many miles to fill them even with a heavy grade oil. Even when I started my engine from new the lifters were filled and running ok within a few minutes.
11-22-2011, 06:15 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Last time you had the cam box off did you check to make sure all the springs were good?
I think there's an inner spring that, if broken, would be hard to see if you don't look for it.
I know you said you had new springs, but they can still fail; it happened to me. It might even be that a cam lobe/lifter interface, if wipped out, could facilitate spring failure. And of course, newly installed cams and lifters will constantly wipe each other out with bad springs.
Hope nothing funky happened with the installation of the springs when your shop did the work. It's the only thing I could think of. This is a mystery for sure.
I think there's an inner spring that, if broken, would be hard to see if you don't look for it.
I know you said you had new springs, but they can still fail; it happened to me. It might even be that a cam lobe/lifter interface, if wipped out, could facilitate spring failure. And of course, newly installed cams and lifters will constantly wipe each other out with bad springs.
Hope nothing funky happened with the installation of the springs when your shop did the work. It's the only thing I could think of. This is a mystery for sure.
11-23-2011, 09:31 AM
#27
I assembled the head after I got it back from the machine shop. I adjusted valve height and spring preload.
Even though valve springs were new back then, the valvetrain has been noisy at idle since first start up.
Checking valve springs didn't come to my mind when I last had the cam housing off, but I'm thinking that if the noise is now less loud than before then no valve spring should have broken and that the problem is mainly related to oil supply. Or a valve spring broke during the first start up?
Also, if a valve spring was broken, shouldn't the valve train be noisy at all revs?
If I try to run the engine without the check valve, am I likely to blow the cam housing gasket?
Even though valve springs were new back then, the valvetrain has been noisy at idle since first start up.
Checking valve springs didn't come to my mind when I last had the cam housing off, but I'm thinking that if the noise is now less loud than before then no valve spring should have broken and that the problem is mainly related to oil supply. Or a valve spring broke during the first start up?
Also, if a valve spring was broken, shouldn't the valve train be noisy at all revs?
If I try to run the engine without the check valve, am I likely to blow the cam housing gasket?
11-24-2011, 04:25 PM
#28
Took the cam housing off.
The gasket was in the correct orientation (phew, I'm not a moron).
Cam lobes don't look as well as 300 miles ago, but they don't look as bad as on the previous camshaft (!).
A bunch of lifters are FUBAR.
The check valve opens well.
As far as I can tell, valve springs are not broken.
I took a ruler to check valve height, and while I haven't measured actual valve height they are all the same height, or at least with a difference I cannot feel by hand.
Any idea before I set fire to this POS?
The gasket was in the correct orientation (phew, I'm not a moron).
Cam lobes don't look as well as 300 miles ago, but they don't look as bad as on the previous camshaft (!).
A bunch of lifters are FUBAR.
The check valve opens well.
As far as I can tell, valve springs are not broken.
I took a ruler to check valve height, and while I haven't measured actual valve height they are all the same height, or at least with a difference I cannot feel by hand.
Any idea before I set fire to this POS?
11-25-2011, 02:28 PM
#30
Contaminated?
Valve heigth is about 14mm, which is fine according to the WM.
Has anyone ever tried running the engine without the check valve?
Valve heigth is about 14mm, which is fine according to the WM.
Has anyone ever tried running the engine without the check valve?
Last edited by Thom; 11-25-2011 at 03:06 PM.