Bri Bro

I was posting about MAF prices and I thought I would make sure my order of pricing was correct. It turned out is it was, but by a lot less then I though...about a $102 difference. Thought I would share the results.

Assumptions. 2.5 liter converting to a MAF using existing injectors, kit price.
Vitesse= $1250.00
M Tune = $1150.00
Lindsey = $1148.95

I am not comparing features, just price. These three major MAF kit vendors have different features that the buyer should carefully review before purchasing to make sure it is what they want. I think all three of these vendor are stand up suppliers to the 951 community.

Sources for prices:

Part# LRA-951-QUAD-M-KIT
Price: $849.95
http://www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Parts/CHIPS.html
Code: LR-951-MAX-CHIP
Price: $299.00
http://www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Part...RFLOWKITS.html


MAF Kit for 2.5L
$1250
http://www.vitesseracing.com/html/mass_air_flow.html


M-Tune w/ your injectors & DME conversion
$1150.00
http://www.roguetuning.com/order/m-tune_order

LFA951

Which is the best one for our cars?

Black51

Good luck to who answers that.

Scott H

You could argue between Vitesse and Rogue all day long. Right now the only real difference is that John has a piggyback ready if you want advanced features/tuning capabilities, and the style fuel injector used (Low vs High-Z, though I believe Rogue can set you up with a Low-Z tune but you still have to use ballast resistors). Joshua is working on a piggyback but there is no definitive ETA.

LR isn't on the same level. It should only be considered if you want to do things as cheap as possible, rules limit certain tuning changes, or if you only care about WOT performance. For certain racers it still has an appeal, but for the masses you're much better off spending the extra coin and getting something with a MAP sensor.

refresh951

A lot of interesting posts lately, apparently stirring the pot.

User 52121

There are a couple other differences... but for the most part, you're correct. I'm sure the vendors will correct me if I'm wrong here.

When I first ordered my Vitesse MAF setup, John told me over the phone he refused to sell me the MAF kit unless I also purchased his injectors. He said that going forward he wasn't selling one without the other. The injectors cost an extra ~$400-450 IIRC (don't have that paperwork in front of me.) IMO it makes sense for safety reasons since IIRC the stock injectors are already running out of flow. But that does add a bit to the bottom line, and leaves the $1250 price feeling a little deceiving. Rogue's injectors are $280. Also, at the time I bought the Vitesse stuff, Vitesse was also charging extra for the wiring pigtail so you didn't have to cut up your stock harness - I want to say it was around $100. This is already included in the Rogue kit.

Doing all this from memory so my numbers might not be spot-on.... someone feel free to correct me. But if my memory is correct, to build *identical* kits between Rogue and Vitesse, the Vitesse will cost you ~$330-$380 more. (Initial $100 difference + $130-$180 difference for injectors + $100 for the pigtail adapter.)

As for the Lindsey stuff - I'm surprised it's that much. I was under the impression it cost a LOT less.

Bri Bro

In my case I supplied 72 lb and then 82 lb injectors and he made the MAPS for me. I could see why he would want buyers with largerTurbos to upgrade stock injectors. If the motor runs lean and blows up, he gets the blamed.

That was pretty common cause of head gasket failures when folks started to bumping up fuel flow with adjustable fuel pressure regulators when going to bigger turbos. No one had custom build ICs for different injectors that did not cost ALOT of money so people used stock injectors at elevated pressures. Sure glad that problem got solved.

The cost of the Lindsey also surprised me. The LR MAF is programmable so it has a piggyback type unit built in. Again, need to look at the features of all of them.

User 52121

Agreed. Like I said, I agree that it's a good idea. The stock injectors are just about max'd out on a mostly stock car. Since you must add some form of external boost control when going to the Vitesse MAF, there's a pretty easy chance that the buyer will crank up the boost and quickly exceed what the injectors can handle. Just felt a little deceived that this "rule" about only selling the MAF with injectors was not listed on the site anywhere... it only came out after I got on the phone.

Personally I'd recommend doing the injectors, no matter which tune you go with, for the same reasons John cited to me - it's just safer, and you're already running out of injector even with the stock setup.

But if you look at a typical purchase, and compare true apples to apples - the price difference starts to get significant.

Rogue M-Tune + injectors on a 28-pin car is $1,380 shipped to the US. (add $50 for a 24-pin car to get converted to 28-pin plus ~$25 for insured UPS shipping to get it to him.)

Vitesse MAF + injectors is $1,650 (assuming $400 for injectors, and add another $100 IIRC if you want the pigtail which is already included in the Rogue kit.) That price does NOT include shipping.

That's a difference of $370+ for a 28-pin car with injectors and no wire cutting. That's > 25%.

onspeed

Since when does Josh not have a stock injector tune?

User 52121

It's possible my information is outdated then. As I stated, the last time I talked to him about it, the stock injector tune wasn't available. That was also back when his stuff was still in Beta.

Looking at his website, it seems that's no longer the case - stock tunes are listed as "in stock". So I'll retract that statement.

LFA951

Ja, ja, I've always heard nothing but great feedback and talk here about Vitesse Mafs and their chips...

john durdin

Try Millerperformance ,looks like a much better deal and well engineered . JOHN

ChrisJ951

IMO all 3 are good products and are much better than the stock set up. Rogue is the newest on the block and has gained a bunch of fans. Vitesse also has the true MAF code with the V-flex that is extra. I had vitesse in my first 951 that I bought in 2006 so it didn't have V-flex. It was a stage 2 kit and it worked well. i didn't have the car for very long and i never had to touch anything. My 2nd 951 I kept stock and now with my 3rd car the Rogue kit wasn't available when I modded my car so I went with the LR Quad 4 MAF with mafterburner on the recommendation on my mechanic (Its what he was most comfortable with) but last week I order a Rogue M-Tune with his injectors. My cars runs well, but I'm just not comfortable with the tuning of the piggyback and LR MAF for my set up.

alxdgr8

And thats why i went standalone! Same price and so much better for my uses.

Paulyy

the vitesse product with the standalone is pretty much has most "standalone" capabilities with out going to the extremes.

With the M-Tune you could put the SMT-6 or some other standalone that controls timing and fuel and again get capabilities to get the most out of the DME.

With the lindsey product, having the older software of the chips limits you with the throttle response and the way the timing works were the other 2 don't