Anthony T.

Hi guys,
My beautiful 87 944s got creamed by a dump truck last wednesday. I'd only had it 5 months! Now I have to start the search all over again. I really loved the handling and ride of the S, but I have to admit I was disappointed with the lack of umph when pushing the long thin pedal down. I've seen a couple of 951's for sale and wanted to ask you all some questions. I know the 944 platform was designed more as a touring/cruising car which is great, but I'd really like to feel some speed when I press the gas. What's the 951 like? How labor intensive is it? What should I be checking for when I'm driving them etc. I'd like to get one that's at least an 88, any pro's or con's? Does anyone know of a good, thorough, competent mechanic in Tucson or Phoenix? Is a Turbo S better? If anyone can think of anything I've missed (and I'm sure I have) please go ahead and let me know. Thanks for your help,
Anthony

mark944turbo

There is a great post in the regular 944 discussion forum right now about the differences between early and late 951s if you have not seen it already. Sorry I don't know how to post a link. Also a search of the archives should turn up A TON of information on this topic. I love my 86 951!

Pat Kennedy

I had a 944S2 for a year, and it was an excellent car. But like you, I wanted more kick in the seat of the pants. I bought an 88 Turbo S three years ago, and playing with it is a blast.

The differences between the early and late turbos cars (and the S) are not that significant. They can all be tweaked satisfactorily.

Not sure how close you are to Tempe AZ, but there is a shop there called Technodyne, run by a guy named Chris Cervelli. He has raced these cars big time and has tons of knowledge about them. Might even be a source of one for sale.

Anthony T.

Thanks for the Tempe lead. Also on that first response, you were right that is a good thread. Still wondering what everyones 951 reliability experience has been. I drive about an hour to work so I need something that I can count on. Too bad I didn't post this last night, I was in Tempe today (about a 3 hour drive) I'll be sure to follow up on technodyne. So has anyone out there upgraded to a 6 speed transmission? Which mods do I need to look at first? What's most critical? How about upgrading the turbo itself? How much does that change the reliability of the engine? Has anyone had any experience with Powerhaus?
Anthony

Matt Sheppard

Well, they are pretty reliable as long as you dont go too extreame in modifying it. The problem is that boost is addicting. And with all "proper addictions", you will want a little more once you get used to the stock boost characteristics.

"Wow, if I get some chips, that will give me 40 more HP". . .

"If I get an MAF, that'll get me . . ."

Perhaps you are not that type of personality, but if you were not satisfied with the "S" after 5 months, I bet you are like most of us here who really like finding new ways to get "a little more".

I'll tell you what.
Go drive one and come back to the board and tell us what you think. . . hee, hee, hee

Danno

"So has anyone out there upgraded to a 6 speed transmission?"

A lot of people have done it and regretted it. You lose your speedometer because the 6-speed trannies don't have the speedo-pickup (968 gets it speed-signal from the ABS sensor). Also the close-ratio 6-speed (6 gears in closer spacing than 951's 5-speed), will have you do a LOT of shifting ALL the time. It's more suitable for the higher-revving 968. The 5-speed in the 951 is just about perfectly matched to that car. In fact, I'm installing a taller 5th gear to increase the spread ever further.

"but I'd really like to feel some speed when I press the gas. "

You can't appreciate your 944S until you drive it after being in 2-valve 944NAs. Now that same difference will be evident when you go from your 944S to an 944S2. Then take that difference yet again and move up to a 951!

Drive a couple of 951s, all your reservations will be answered immediately!

Mike B

[quote]Drive a couple of 951s, all your reservations will be answered immediately!<hr></blockquote>

Amen to that Danno! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

Anthony T.

Thanks everybody for the info. So I guess I'll pass on the six speed. How about an upgrade to the g-50, or is that another bad idea? I'm really looking forward to driving a turbo. They sound like a lot of fun. Anybody out there who could compare & contrast with a 968? It sounds like the 951 is a nice option considering the price difference, or is that more wishful thinking? Please let me know what you think.
Anthony

Danno

"How about an upgrade to the g-50,"

What's wrong with the 951's standard 5-speed tranny? The only issue I have with it is that 5th gear is way too low and I hit redline @ 176mph and that's it! The fun's over! Certainly is a durable unit with numerous people in the 400+rwhp club!

ColoradoBill

Ditto re the general consensus on the 951 vs NA, even the S.

All things being equal, though, the Turbo S (or an optioned out 951) is a great value as you are getting some nice pieces that will be costly mods to a 951. Later model 951's also had some of the upgrade pieces.

A few examples: Koni yellows, beefier swaybars, Limited Slip, Brembos.

Then you have the usual 944 issues: recent clutch is very good, recent belts are good, low mi. good.

It's almost like you need a spreadsheet when you are shopping to value all these things!

Good luck!

megatron

anthony,

sorry to hear about your car. damn.

the 1st car i bought myself was an '84 944 when i was 18. that car was nice a nice start into the 944 world, but the other cars are so so much better.

three years ago, i drove a '91 944s2 daily (got @ 55k mi). then it got run over by a semi. i guess you can relate... i think that was one of my first few rennlist posts, to think of it.

so i got a '93 968 (got @ 65k mi) and daily drove that for about two years. i just recently picked up an '86 turbo (got @ 63k mi).

the 968 is the most refined of these. smoother engine, the interior is a bit nicer with updated doors. the car feels really solid (i think it was the only 944 series build in germany, is this correct)? torque is pretty much everywhere and power builds linearly all the way to redline, with a nice surge at about 4000rpm. i put konis, a quaife and harness bar in the car and autocrossed this car a bunch over the last few years and took it to the track a few times with great results. the car loves to rev and the gearbox is well suited to it. going to the 6 speed from the 944s2 5spd was nice. it's a bit tighter box, so all the rowing is a pleasure.

the 944s2 felt a lot like the 968. however, it didn't feel quite as "billet", but was quite nice. it wasn't quite as fast as the 968 in a straight line, but still had gobs of torque and it was marginally more nimble, being a little lighter.

the 86 951 is a totally different beast from those two torquers (at least in stock form... ). you wait for the power, but are treated to a non-stop surge once you get it. that said, this car probably isn't the best autocross car, but does great on the highway & track. it's a bit lighter than the other cars and feels that way. turn in is a teeny bit quicker, but the balance & limits are all the same. it is a bit tin-like in comparison to the other cars, but is still very solid. off boost, the gas mileage is much better than the high compression cars (10.9:1 for S2, 11.0:1 for 968)

maintenance wise, the s2 needed two big services in a year, but it was a new jersey car and many parts failed due to corrosion. the 968 has been very good (was a cali car). i don't know about the 951 yet (was a texas, then seattle car).

edit: just wanted to add - limited slip TRANSFORMS these cars. once you drive with one (esp a torsen or quaife gear-type) you'll never want to go back to peg legging. do it as soon as you can and you won't regret it.

Ahmet

The 88 turbo Ses, and the 91 model turbos as well as all 968s were built @ the Porsche plant (stuttgart). I'm not positive about the 1989 and 1990 model year turbos. All other 944s were built at the audi plant(still in west Germany). I don't think there's significant tangible quality/assembly differences between the two plants.
Ahmet

Mike B

Megatron has a pretty objective view point...I haven't had the pleasure of driving a S2 but I can concur with his opinion of the 951...Plain and simple, It's lots of fun...Having said that I'm a little biased...
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

Anthony T.

everybody,
Wow, I didn't expect to get that kind of reaction, very cool. Now I know how to get Danno to reply, all I have to do is mention a 6 speed tranni! Thanks for the compare/contrast on the 968/951. Great info, from all. Ok, so lets say I get an 89, besides the Quaife, which I've also thought about, what are the upgrade priorities? Again, I just want you to know how much I appreciate your help and info.
Anthony <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Pat Kennedy

I thought that I once read that all 944's including the turbos and S's were NOT manufactured in Stuttgart, but in Zuffenhausen. Doesn't matter much to me, but some "purists" argue that this is ANOTHER reason the 944's are not "real" Porsches. Seems a feeble argument at best.

I know another way to get Danno's attention:

"DANNO READS SPORT COMPACT CAR MAGAZINE!" <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" /> <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />