GrantG

Just curious if there's any more info available about this kit - including release date and price, please.

Thanks alot,
Grant
88 944TS

Danno

We've got an announcement in the New Products room on our <a href="http://forums.gururacing.net" target="_blank">GURU-Forums</a>

At this point, we're going to be offering with two options (harness & ignition) for a total of 4 combinations:

1. Plug & Play 5-minute installation into stock harness, using stock distributor and coil.

2. Plug & Play 1-hour installation into stock harness, with twin-coil pack distributorless ignition (can use stock plug wires).

3. Replacement harness, using stock distributor and coil (2-3 hour installation)

4. Replacement harness, with twin-coil pack distributorless ignition. (3-4 hour installation)

Tentative pricing is on that thread and we're looking at a late-January product introduction.


<img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

dmoffitt

is there ANY way i could prototype / get it a bit early, as i could really benefit from standalone / distributorless with what i'm hoping to do (<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=003423" target="_blank">burnt valve - what else to do while head's off / car's apart? </a> -- danno, if this is at all a possibility in your mind, plz email me dmoffitt@rochester.rr.com, or call 716 732-0909 (any hour, sleep is for the weak hehe)[/

dmoffitt

(double post)

GrantG

Looking forward to it, Danno!
-Grant

Danno

dmoffitt, sent you an email with a lot of info. Please call me anytime with the questions I'm sure you'll have. <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />

rcldesign

HR has been selling the EXACT SAME SYSTEM for a couple of months now...actually they have both the LEM1 (part# HR-EFI1-951) and the LinkPlus (part# HR-EFI2-951) systems (I'm not sure which Guru is going to carry). The part #'s say "951" in them, but if you look at the Link Electrosystems website, they should most definately work with a N/A 944 or 968 (you'll probably just have to mess with the harnass a wee bit). They also have options for using your stock distributor/rotor or coils and all that stuff. More info is here:

<a href="http://www.archcartpro.com/users/dkhajavi/HR-EFI.html" target="_blank">HR EFI systems</a>

So if you don't want to wait for Link to sell them to Danno, then you can call HR and get them now.

adrial

RCL design, first of all why is that page not on the main huntley website??

And second of all, pricing? Plug and play?

Olli Snellman

[quote]So if you don't want to wait for Link to sell them to Danno, then you can call HR and get them now <hr></blockquote>

I would wait

Steve Lavigne

Danno, does the Link use the knock sensor?

rcldesign

Link uses twin knock sensing in closed loop for correction... i.e. it doesn't save the timing retard information that it induces when it detects knock unless you specifically tell it to. Rather, it uses knock sensing as a safety measure.

The Link information isn't on HR's main website since they're moving away from the main site and using primarily the shopping cart site - that's where this information is located.

So, you want to wait for Link to agree to sell (and ship) the exact same system to Guru, rather than buying it from HR... that's your perogative. HR has recently changed their customer service and policies around a bit now. Why don't you try this... call up tomorrow, ask for Chris (me). I won't lie to you, I won't give you any BS, I will answer all your questions, I will make absolutely sure that you get exactly what you wanted as quickly as is possible, I will follow up with you later to make sure that everything is working out for you, I will give you all the tech support you require, I will bend over backwards for my customers. Derrek is a busy guy that has to manage the employees, develop products, do the book keeping, answer the tech calls and the sales calls, etc... I am not a busy guy. I just pick up the phone and talk to whoever happens to be on the other end about their cars and what we can do to make them better. The way it was before, less than 1% of customers complained for any reason... it just so happens that a couple of them were rennlist users, and they were very vocal. So, based on the situations with literally less than 0.01% of HR's customers, you automatically assume that buying product from HR is a terrible thing to do?

Well, in any case, things are different now, and if you call, there is good chance you'll be dealing with me now. Why don't you give me a chance, and see what I can do for you.

Anyway... for those of you who are reading this thread for info on the Link EFI systems, I can provide you with any of the information you may need including pricing, availability, specs, installation info, and so forth. I would need to be at work to provide you with exact pricing and availability information (pricing should be on the website though - in the Online Store area). So, if anyone's interested, I will be at HR after 11 am PST tomorrow and all day Saturday (then school starts again, and I won't be there very much), so if you've got questions, I'd be glad to answer them for you.

Chris
Huntley Racing
(619) 448-3800

Danno

"Danno, does the Link use the knock sensor?"

Yes and no. We've experimented with knock-detection on the stock Motronic DME and on the Link EFI systems. My position is that knock-detection is more a safety feature than a performance one. At first glance on the theory behind knock-sensors, one may draw the conclusion:

However, in the actual implementations, there are some factors to consider. First, a knock-sensor is just a transducer; a microphone. It converts sounds and pressure-waves from the engine-block into an electrical impulse. Therefore, the positioning and attachment of the knock-sensor itself is critical. The later cars have two knock-sensors.

Second, the signal that the sensors generate is then analyzed by the KLR computer. It has a pre-programmed image of what knock 'should' sound like, and when it 'hears' that sound it will retard your ignition. Knock has a fixed sound profile and when it occurs at high-RPM, it may occur more often, but it's not louder. More severe detonation is louder with higher amplitude. However, at high-RPM, the higher frequency and higher-amplitude of background noise from the injectors and valvetrain will increase quicker than the sounds of knock & detonation. So knock-detection gets unreliable at high-RPMs (where the danger due to running lean is higher).

However, in the event that a knock-event is detected, the KLR will retard the timing significantly; enough to cause a big loss in power, creating a stumble. The amount of retard is not fixed and it's not even in degrees, but is rather based upon crank position. The maximum retard that be dialed in by the KLR is 4.77 degrees ATDC. That means if you're currently running 20-degrees igntion-advanced BTDC, then the maximum number of degrees of retard is then 4.77-(-20) = 24.77 degrees. However, if you're on some other portion of the ignition map at say... 35-degrees advance, then the timing may be retarded 4.77-(-35) = 39.77 degrees.

But that's even assuming that the knock is detected at all. Since the KLR program-code is inside the CPU itself with the read-protect bit turn on, we can't extract the code to disassemble and analyze. But I suspect that the KLR computer doesn't detect knock quickly enough (I can sometimes hear pinging before the computer catches it), or it doesn't retard quickly enough in sufficient numbers of degrees. In any case, the numbers and frequencies of blown headgaskets in 951s would indicate that the stock knock-detection systen doesn't work very well.

The Link EFI systems, like the SDS, uses a pre-programmed knock-profile and incorporates an adjustable threshold setting. Kind of like a volume control where it can listen for a certain waveform, and will only trigger ignition retard when the amplitude rises above the pre-set level. But again, at high-RPMs, extraneous noise will drown out the sounds of knock & detonation and setting the threshold too low will cause igntion-retard and stumbling under normal operating conditions.

So given that knock-sensors and detection is unreliable and can only be used as a safety measure, what about performance? I still think that the best system is a skilled tuner on the dyno. They can sense knock with their ears well before the knock-sensor can retard timing. And they can also identify the tell-tale traces of knock on dyno-charts. With a skilled tuner, you can then probe the limits of ignition right up to the edge of knock, then back off a couple of degrees for safety and program that into the igntion maps (on the chips or in an EFI system).

To bring that level of sophistication to the home-tuner, we are offering this 2nd-generation Knock-detection gauge:



This gauge features advanced digital electronics that will actually listen to your engine when it's first turned on to 'learn' the standard sounds of your engine. The stored waveform is then used for comparison purposes later on. Anything that deviates from the 'normal' sounds will be indicated on the gauge. More and more abnormal noises will indicate higher severity of knocking and will be shown on the gauge through the dial as well as color changes; you don't need to take your eyes off the road! This tool will then allow you to make optimized ignition maps like those we've created for our chips (which BTW, have less ignition advance everywhere compared to the AutoThority/Huntley chips).

rcldesign

Technically, one could design/build a system that uses a variable knock profile based on RPM that would of course have a varying "noise" threshold...or, there are spark plugs that you can get with built in knock pressure sensors - ignore audible noise all together and just monitor the combustion pressure

Isn't it cool how Link just changed the face of their air/fuel meter to say "Knock" ... personally, I think it would get annoying watching the colors change during normal operating conditions (espicially with the O2 sensor dithering!)... just my opinion though.

Anyway, Danno is right: get a good tuner with a dyno that knows what they're doing rather than relying on electronic fail-safe mechanisims.

dmoffitt

[quote]Originally posted by Danno:
<strong>dmoffitt, sent you an email with a lot of info. Please call me anytime with the questions I'm sure you'll have. <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

thx, you've got mail

Steve Lavigne

[quote]Originally posted by rcldesign:
<strong>Why don't you try this... call up tomorrow, ask for Chris (me). I won't lie to you, I won't give you any BS, I will answer all your questions, I will make absolutely sure that you get exactly what you wanted as quickly as is possible, I will follow up with you later to make sure that everything is working out for you, I will give you all the tech support you require, I will bend over backwards for my customers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

How can we trust you when up to this point you have not identified yourself as a HR employee... perhaps I missed the post. In the past, I just assumed that you were a satisfied and loyal customer. Being an employee changes the context of your comments significantly. How long have you been employed by Huntley?