Wideband O2
03-15-2002, 03:18 AM
#17
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think we are talking about the same project. There is a group of people how have formed a group in Au to explore EFI systems. One of the projects was a Wideband System.
<a href="http://www.diy-efi.org/" target="_blank">Do it youself Systems</a>
The original design has been modified and is available as;
<a href="http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm" target="_blank">Wide band system</a>
The problem is that there are several sources that this product can be obtained from. This is why I am obtaining a "kit" for a source that was developing the product for the long term. They also intend to make it available as an assembled unit.
I have two kits on order an intend to determine how well the system performs. So far it looks very promising.
marshall951, please advise your source and your results. I for one am just looking for a product that works and can be maintained.
Danno, making a 12.5/1 setpoint is easy. Most of the comparitors come in dual and quad packages and a couple of resistors changes the reference voltage. Need to find the trigger to change the output (WOT?). I can't find squat on schematic and code for the DME/KLR .. do you have a source? I bet that the 198x didn't care about WOT emissions.
<a href="http://www.diy-efi.org/" target="_blank">Do it youself Systems</a>
The original design has been modified and is available as;
<a href="http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm" target="_blank">Wide band system</a>
The problem is that there are several sources that this product can be obtained from. This is why I am obtaining a "kit" for a source that was developing the product for the long term. They also intend to make it available as an assembled unit.
I have two kits on order an intend to determine how well the system performs. So far it looks very promising.
marshall951, please advise your source and your results. I for one am just looking for a product that works and can be maintained.
Danno, making a 12.5/1 setpoint is easy. Most of the comparitors come in dual and quad packages and a couple of resistors changes the reference voltage. Need to find the trigger to change the output (WOT?). I can't find squat on schematic and code for the DME/KLR .. do you have a source? I bet that the 198x didn't care about WOT emissions.
03-15-2002, 04:23 PM
#18
Race Director
Need to find the trigger to change the output (WOT?). I can't find squat on schematic and code for the DME/KLR .. do you have a source? I bet that the 198x didn't care about WOT emissions.
The full-throttle trigger line is #18 leaving the KLR going to #3 on the DME.
The issue I see with trapping this line and referencing 12.5:1 on the O2-sensor is the range and speed of dithering that occurs with the DME's algorithm. We would need some datalogging to keep things on the safe side. But we can't center the new mixture on 12.5:1 because that would mean several engine revolutions at 11.0:1 and several others at 14.0:1 as the DME dithers back and forth between what it thinks is 14.7:1. That's too big of a spread. So perhaps it would still be better to drop into open-loop mode under full-throttle...
The full-throttle trigger line is #18 leaving the KLR going to #3 on the DME.
The issue I see with trapping this line and referencing 12.5:1 on the O2-sensor is the range and speed of dithering that occurs with the DME's algorithm. We would need some datalogging to keep things on the safe side. But we can't center the new mixture on 12.5:1 because that would mean several engine revolutions at 11.0:1 and several others at 14.0:1 as the DME dithers back and forth between what it thinks is 14.7:1. That's too big of a spread. So perhaps it would still be better to drop into open-loop mode under full-throttle...
03-19-2002, 12:23 AM
#19
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I would be happy with a wide band O2 and readout that is quick to install and remove, to use just for tuning.
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
03-22-2002, 11:44 AM
#20
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I wanted to use a pro O2 wide band system just to tune my car
The team chief told me I may need to make a hole in the exhaust and instal it thzere.
I can not use it instead my O2 sensor since the DME still need the stock O2 sensor casue it need to know what is going on
So my Q: can I just use teh Wide band sensor and just unplug my stock O2 sensor?
make a hole and a thread to the stock exhuast can be really difficult.
Konstantin
The team chief told me I may need to make a hole in the exhaust and instal it thzere.
I can not use it instead my O2 sensor since the DME still need the stock O2 sensor casue it need to know what is going on
So my Q: can I just use teh Wide band sensor and just unplug my stock O2 sensor?
make a hole and a thread to the stock exhuast can be really difficult.
Konstantin
03-22-2002, 02:04 PM
#21
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The answer is yes BUT you can't connect the wideband directly to the DME plug for the original O2 sensor, they are not even close to being compatible.
Instead, you install the wideband and connect it to the wideband system board. This board has a connection to a display unit, controls heater currents, and conditions the signal from the wideband O2 sensor. There is an output on the system board that can be connected to a voltage comparator and this signal can be connected to the original O2 plug.
I currently am building two of these system/display kits and will also build a couple of the comparator interface boards (this will give a DME compatible O2 signal). I hope to post the result in a week or two. I also intend to have the second system/display unit available to anyone who wants to try it out. The catch is you have to buy your own wideband O2 sensor. If you would like to borrow it, let me know.
Instead, you install the wideband and connect it to the wideband system board. This board has a connection to a display unit, controls heater currents, and conditions the signal from the wideband O2 sensor. There is an output on the system board that can be connected to a voltage comparator and this signal can be connected to the original O2 plug.
I currently am building two of these system/display kits and will also build a couple of the comparator interface boards (this will give a DME compatible O2 signal). I hope to post the result in a week or two. I also intend to have the second system/display unit available to anyone who wants to try it out. The catch is you have to buy your own wideband O2 sensor. If you would like to borrow it, let me know.
03-24-2002, 10:04 PM
#22
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
that sounds good
1)I just want to unplug the stock O2 sensor.
2)plug the wide band sensor in the same hole.
3)Read the readings with the wide band board and readjust the ARC2.
4)Unplug the Wideband sensor and plug teh stock O2 back
would an unpluged stock O2 sensor cause the engine runig bad at the time that I use the Wide band sensor for reading? I know that the O2 sensor is not nececary for WOT readings but what about part throtlle and idle readings?
Konstantin
1)I just want to unplug the stock O2 sensor.
2)plug the wide band sensor in the same hole.
3)Read the readings with the wide band board and readjust the ARC2.
4)Unplug the Wideband sensor and plug teh stock O2 back
would an unpluged stock O2 sensor cause the engine runig bad at the time that I use the Wide band sensor for reading? I know that the O2 sensor is not nececary for WOT readings but what about part throtlle and idle readings?
Konstantin
03-24-2002, 10:42 PM
#23
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Procedure would be:
*Take out the stock O2 sensor
*Install the Wideband sensor
*Plug the wideband sensor to the system board
*Connect the system board to the display unit and to a small comparitor board.
*Connect a plug from the comparitor board into the original O2 sensor engine wiring harness plug.
The engine now sees a signal that is the same as the original O2 sensor produced and you also have the wideband display showing you exacly were the Lamda is. When you are done, you remove the wideband sensor, install the original O2 sensor and plug it back in to the engine wiring plug.
Any good muffler shop could weld on a additional bung for the wideband, I am not sure why this would be a problem. But if it is, the procedure above will work.
*Take out the stock O2 sensor
*Install the Wideband sensor
*Plug the wideband sensor to the system board
*Connect the system board to the display unit and to a small comparitor board.
*Connect a plug from the comparitor board into the original O2 sensor engine wiring harness plug.
The engine now sees a signal that is the same as the original O2 sensor produced and you also have the wideband display showing you exacly were the Lamda is. When you are done, you remove the wideband sensor, install the original O2 sensor and plug it back in to the engine wiring plug.
Any good muffler shop could weld on a additional bung for the wideband, I am not sure why this would be a problem. But if it is, the procedure above will work.
03-24-2002, 11:44 PM
#24
Race Director
How about hooking up the second O2 sensor in the test port on the crossover pipe? I know it's too small and threads are different, but the sensor's tip will fit. Then just have a threaded collar on the outside that fits on both the test port's thread and provides a larger shoulder for the O2 sensor?
03-28-2002, 07:18 PM
#25
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
[quote]Originally posted by beab951:
<strong> and to a small comparitor board.</strong><hr></blockquote>
where to find this comparitor board?
Konstantin
<strong> and to a small comparitor board.</strong><hr></blockquote>
where to find this comparitor board?
Konstantin
04-03-2002, 03:20 AM
#28
Racer
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: California
Posts: 374
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After you have a handle on your air/fuel ratio, you still have to deal with what is the proper percentage of Stoic. for your motor at a given RPM and boost level. It ain't rocket science, but if you're pushing the limits it's very critical. 12.5, or .85 Stoic. may be too rich during at low load situation and, at least for my application, too lean above 200 kpa. Too rich is almost as bad as too lean, especially down the road. If you're going to push these things well over 400 H/P you'll need finite control throughout the RPM range and boost levels. Racing fuel is also required. Don't leave home W/O it.
