dmoffitt

yeah even if it added .005 to your CD, i think the extra 20+ hp @ speed would more than make up for it.

TurboTim

dmofitt,

My post was not aimed at you so calm down. Actually on Lindseys website they have alot of enuendos about our products(and others as well) in which case they are making flase claims. If they can prove that our intercooler rasies the temperature then that is one thing.To just say it does without any proof is wrong! I know it doesnt because I have seen mutliple datalogs of the coolant and manifold airtemp to back up what I am saying.

As far as the ulgy comment....well that is my opinion and I am sorry it upset some of you. From the front the panel does not look to bad to me but from the side it looks like a damn truck front end. The lines of the 944 turbo are beautiful and I would not add anything to my car to destroy those lines. Again, this is just an opinion.

As far as the CD goes...... if you think it is only adding .005 to the cd then so be it.....However, I feel it is adding alot more then that based on what the flares on the 944 added to the 924's CD. Until someone can do some wind tunnel testing.... I guess no one will know exactly what kind of drag that panel adds. BTW, more drag will require the same car to need more power to acheive the same speeds. More drag will also limit the top-end of the car unless you have the extra power to make up for it. .

dmoffitt

the .005 comment was a joke tim i don't think a touch extra drag's a huge concern to me, what w/ the weight reduction and extra power.

lets drop this, and get back on topic of the IC. if you think you have a product that is as good or better, at a comparable price, post some data / dyno charts / graphs / whatever to back it up. simply accusing others of having unverified claims doesn't immediately verify your own - i'm all for competition, it keeps prices down for all of us, and helps drive innovation and improvements... if you can come up w/ a product that's better than, say, lindseys, or john anderson, or danno, and sell it to me at the same price or less, and promise it will arrive on time, i'll gladly purchase it from you... so compete away

Dwayne Williams

Well there goes Tim poking at other vendors again. Just for the record why don't you show some quotes from a competitor's website rather than your "innuendos" comment? I looked at Lindsey's site and the only thing I saw is they mention that some other intercoolers require mods to the car. So exactly WHERE does it say your intercooler raises the temp?

Speaking of quotes - this is from SFR's website "This intercooler is the ideal intercooler for the 951! Face it, the stock 951 intercooler was designed 20 years ago. Alot has changed in 20 years! So have intercoolers! SFR makes the best and only intercooler upgrade for the 951. Don't you want the best? Well if you do, then give us a call . We will be glad to answer all your questions."

The only intercooler upgrade? Talk about false claims!! Honestly Tim, the only person we consistently see talking smack about another person's products is YOU. Spend a little more time on customer service and shipping products on time and a little less trying to poke other people in the eye.

evil 944t

Tim,

Do you have too and why do you have to reverse the flow of the I/C ?

How much is it?

TurboTim

Dmoffit,

Here is the dyno chart on a car from four years ago.It has been on our website for a long time.

<a href="http://www.speedforceracing.com/dyno/intercoolerdyno1.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.speedforceracing.com/dyno/intercoolerdyno1.jpg</a>

The car only made 289 horsepower (probably because of the stock cat) before we swapped out the intercooler. As soon as we made the swap we picked up an extra psi of boost. We turned the boost back down to the same boost level and dialed in the mixture(it went lean with the increased boost). Final result was 304 horsepower. Ofcourse this is a peak power gain but it picked up torque and horsepower throughout the rpm range.

Dwayne,

Lighten up a little;^) Sorry to offend you. I never once said anything derogatory about their intercooler or how it performs. That is what this thread was ultimately about. I just gave my opinion of what I like to call a..... "cosmetic enhancement" and I voiced a concern about aerodynamics. Dave Lindsey and myself go way back. Call it a rivalry. Call it competition! We have had tuners wars on these boards. We had wars when there was no Lindsey Racing or SFR for that matter! Dave was eventually kicked off the Rennlist. I wasnt. What it comes down too is that I dont really like him and he really does not like me.

I have been on Rennlist since its start-up. Before that I was on the Porschelist (Rennlists old name) and before that list, Porschefans. Again it has been a long time and I have tried on a couple of occasions to put the stuff(both on and off the boards) behind Lindsey and myself and move on and possibly do business with him. As you can see that never worked out.

As far as customer service goes..... I think we have good customer service. I have worked till 3:00 am to finish cars and parts for people when they needed them. I have gone the extra mile on many occasions to make our customers happy. Unfortunately, you cant please all the people, all the time. As far as delivering our products goes...........We try to deliver in a timely manner. We make about 50% of our products in-house.50% is alot of products to manufacture in-house.We cant just slap our labels on some of these parts and ship them out. We have to make them from scratch. Sometimes there is delays but everything is built by myself and the guys at the shop. Nothing leaves unless it is perfect. Perfection takes time. It is this perfection that ultimately caught the eye of one of the Editors at Popular Science Magazine. So much so that there is an article in the March 2003 edition with a car that we put together. Dwayne, I am sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way.I will try to avoid it in the future. This was just something I thought you should know.Hopefully, it might change your opinion of me:^) Take care.

Evil,

You dont need to reverse the flow with our intercooler. It works just like the stock unit. It is just a bigger core, with bigger inlets, which allows it to move more air and cool it more effectively. Our intercooler set-up is $1095. It comes with the intercooler, piping, brackets, hoses and clamps.

dmoffitt

tim - glad to see the dyno chart - any reason you picked up said extra psi? quicker / easier spool w/ increased flow? i think it was fair/correct of you to dial it back into the previous settings / boost levels pre-intercooler, but i'd also like to see if you had a chart that showed what it was WITH that extra boost

CarreraCup03

I have been extremly happy with all of my Lindsey parts that I have on my race motor.
Including:
stage 3head, stage V intercooler with "ugly" header piece, intake manifold, air/oil separator (kokeln), big red brake kit, crank, oil pan baffle kit, crank case vent kit, "supermount" engine mounts, fuel pressure guage, and coated pistons, head, and intake.
I have had many parts from other "tuners" on my car ... I have since taken them all off. Many tuners sell "BS" and "go fast parts" ... I have found Lindsey to be honest and reliable. Their products can speak for themselves.

944turbo

Olli Snellman

Tim is right when he said Lindsey speak BS about SFR products.I am using Lindsey products and have been satisfied with them.
if you are claiming Tim is the only one who is speaking BS about competitors products you are wrong.Check out the E-mail i got from Dave last year:


Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:21:44 -0600
To: ollisnellman@yahoo.com
From: dlindsey@ionet.net | This is spam | Add to Address Book
Subject:



Oli,

The SFR intercooler is not a good choice because of it's location. We
have had customers buy ours who said they were running SFR's but their
cars overheated from day one. We can back this up
with customers names. No
BS here.

dmoffitt

yes but that is a private conversation - it's not like dave lindsey emailed everyone here on rennlist (whereas tim posted his stuff publicly).

can we drop this whole dave/tim/whatever thing and get back on topic re: the stageV IC?

i'm quite curious - 944turbo and others, who are using this product, what can i expect (besides lower IC-out temps)? will it change lag/spool time? that was speculation / a guess on my part, i'd like to hear actual experiences.

Dwayne Williams

Tim, I don't care if Lindsey was the best man at your wedding or your mortal enemy - you seem to make a habit of spreading false information about other vendors and their products, which as a competing vendor puts you into the "libel" bin. This board is supposed to be for people to collect decent, preferably unbiased information about these cars - not for one vendor to try and "position" themselves and their products above any others by posting false information or observations based on something they saw/heard years ago. You'll notice I've never said a thing about your abilities or the quality of your products. The only problem I have with you is you keep trying to use Rennlist as a guerilla marketing campaign - feel free to talk about your products, services, and capabilities - just quit using this forum to bad mouth your competition or people you don't like.

Since you brought it up, I don't buy things from you anymore because of the poor experiences I've had with your idea of customer service (and from reading this board I see I am not alone in that department). Last thing I bought from SFR was a set of stainless fuel lines - I called, was told they were in stock and could ship "right away", so I placed the order and requested express shipping. After not hearing/seeing anything for a week and a half I called and left a message requesting a refund. Two days later the lines appear with a shipping date of after the time I placed the refund request call (no call, no explanation, no note). I think the fuel lines are great and I think SFR has some high quality products, I've just had bad buying experiences with SFR so I voted with my wallet and shop somewhere else now. Customer service in my opinion is being able to ship when you say you will, reliability, and communication. And honestly I've gotten much better customer service from other vendors in this same area (not just one).

Olli, thanks for that input but I'm really focusing on public forum bashing like Tim does on a regular basis.

JustinL

I've been wondering about the intercooler thing for a while too. Some of these intercoolers have better "flow" than stock. So if they have less pressure drop, the turbo can crank out more air without heating it up so much in the first place. Wouldn't this allow you to run higher psi and keep the turbo in its efficiency range?

Sorry, this post is not the most clear... hopefully someone understands what I'm trying to say.

Justin

dmoffitt

yes justin that's 100% correct. the more one compresses air the more one heats it. the idea of turning up the boost isn't that the increased pressure makes more power, it's the increased airflow in and out of the engine. so you hit the nail on the head, if you can flow more air at a given pressure, or, if you can decrease temparature at a given pressure, you are increasing power. think of it in the terms of what we all learned in basic chemistry - the interrelation of temparature, pressure and volume. our engines have a fixed/given volume, so you're limited to pressure and temparature changes. if you can increase pressure and minimize the temparature increase (aka, better intercooler and turning up the boost 1-2psi) you can safely make more power.

i bought the stage1 in the first place because of this (wanting to run 16-17psi with nothing but the IC, autothority chips, and an LBE). this was safe/effective and worked great (til i had a failed vac. line to the wastegate, nothing one can do about that, burned a valve @ 24psi, doh!) - i bought the stage5 IC to be able to run a reasonable (18psi on my new motor) amt. of boost very safely / reliabily.